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What to get?

Discussion in 'Curio & Relics Forum' started by cointoss2, Mar 4, 2003.

  1. cointoss2

    cointoss2 Guest

    prezzzzz
    Member
    Posts: 4
    (10/9/02 10:47:26 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del All What to get?
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    I just bought my first of what I see will be many Milsurps. I bought a VZ-24 at a local gunshow for $80.00. I had no idea what it was. Luckily, It's good one. Headspace is perfect, no counter bore and shiney bore. I was lucky. Shoot like a dream.
    The problem is, now I'm hooked on this hobby. Here's the question:

    There is another gun show this weekend. I want to get my second milsurp and I don't know what I should look for. What would be a nice Milsurp to look for, for my second addition to my new hobby?

    What's out there in good numbers, but would be a bit different than my Czech Mauser?

    Thanks


    TallTLynn
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 4752
    (10/9/02 11:02:02 pm)
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    ezSupporter
    Re: What to get?
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    Hmmm,

    You've got K-31's (Swiss 7.5mm) and I understand those things are dang accurate. You have Enfields (.303 and the later ones that were changed over to .30 . Then there are Turk Mausers (8mm), Yugo SKS's (be careful though since they don't have chrome lined bores) and there are the M44's in 7.62x54r - lots of different nationalities.

    There are endless varieties of milsurp rifles and handguns. Look around and take your time to acquire what you will in these weapons and you'll have hours upon hours of enjoyment.

    prezzzzz
    Member
    Posts: 5
    (10/9/02 11:14:39 pm)
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    Thanks for the good info. Maybe it would be an easier question to ask, is there anything in the Milsurps that is a piece of junk? Anything I should stay away from.

    Thanks again.

    TallTLynn
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 4754
    (10/9/02 11:35:21 pm)
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    ezSupporter
    Re: What to get?
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    Figure out how much you want to spend on something and don't go over it for one. Be careful of the newer Turk mausers that have been shipped here - a lot of them are pretty rough.

    Check the prices on the internet for stuff - like through the distributors and make sure you don't pay a whole lot over that.

    Do check each rifle you consider over very carefully - I didn't on one rifle and will spend far more money fixing it than the dang thing is really worth (my VZ-24 to be exact).

    Bob In St Louis
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3068
    (10/10/02 5:30:33 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: What to get?
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    Probably one of the best deals going right now are the Mosin Nagant M44 rifles - they are plentiful, and the price is right.

    Also, another fine rifle available right now is the Yugoslavian Mausers M48 or M48A - if you pick up one of those, then you would have two rifles of the same caliber and wouldn't have to be looking for other ammo.
    Crusty Cruffler of Fine Spanish Pistols - Eibar Rules!

    Edited by: Bob In St Louis at: 10/10/02 8:07:56 am

    stan741
    Member
    Posts: 22
    (10/10/02 7:01:10 am)
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    Mosin-Nagant Model 44.The mostest fun gun around.Loud,bright and cheap.Most of them are pretty accurate.I was into Mausers till I got an M44 and it turnd the whole hobby around for me. I now have 6 of them.The Mosins in general are very historic guns.The model of simplicity and efficiency in firearms.Then you follow that up with a 91/30 and an M39,the list is endless.

    The more I listen, the more I hear......and vice versa.

    Xracer
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 2864
    (10/10/02 9:10:28 am)
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    Don't forget the 6.5 Swede Mausers......nice gun, great caliber.

    Or how about a collection of the main battle rifles of the major powers in WWII..... Garand, Enfield, K98, Moisin-Nagent, Arisaka, and Carcarno.

    1952Sniper
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 248
    (10/10/02 9:23:57 am)
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    I have to agree with stan741. The M44s are the biggest bang for the buck right now. (literally!) Average price for an M44 still packed in cosmoline is around $50. Ammo is plentiful and cheap. And it will get you hooked on Mosin-Nagants.

    As for the Turk Mauser, I think it's also a good buy, if you get a decent one. I got a real beauty for $40.

    The Yugo SKS is also a good choice, but it's a little pricier at around $130 on average.

    I feel sorry for you. You've started down a path that will empty your pocketbook. It's a disease that some of us have picked up, and it seems to be incurable. All you can do is treat the symptoms by buying more mil-surps.
    Macht kaputt, was euch kaputt macht!

    prezzzzz
    Member
    Posts: 6
    (10/10/02 12:04:26 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: What to get?
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    I should have know I was in trouble when I spend hours on the internet investigating what I just bought. Sitting there on the computer with my with my VZ-24 sitting beside me like my pet dog.

    What Cal. is the Mosin-Nagant? Also, I just lucked out on getting a real good shooting VZ-24. What would identify that a particular Milsurp is not worth buying? What are some key signals not to buy it?

    Thanks

    1952Sniper
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 253
    (10/10/02 12:36:24 pm)
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    All Mosin-Nagants are 7.62x54R. The beauty of them is that no matter what model it is, it not only shoots the same caliber (unlike Mausers), but it uses the same bolt. These guns were used in active service for a LONG time, and the design stayed pretty much the same, with a few variations. It is a solid rifle, well designed and well built.

    Things I would look out for:

    -Rust
    -Extremely worn barrel
    -Cracked stock (although this can be dealt with if you have the time/money/paitence)
    -Mismatched bolt (check the headspace before buying, if possible, but definitely before firing)

    Pretty much any mil-surp can be brought back to life with enough love and work. It just depends on whether you bought it for it's historical/collector value or to shoot it. I would recommend buying mil-surps that are still soaked in cosmoline. That way, you can be fairly certain that no one has jacked with it. Plus, it gives you a wonderful feeling to get it all cleaned up and refinish the stock and install all the goodies you want on it (such as sling, etc.).

    I would shy away from any mil-surp that someone tries to pass off as a "sniper" version. There are some out there, but 9 times out of 10, it is a ruse to squeeze more money out of you. Most "sniper" versions were made that way by Americans firearms dealers. Some people wet their pants over a sniper version, but my opinion is that unless you do a LOT of research, you may be getting screwed.
    Macht kaputt, was euch kaputt macht!

    Edited by: 1952Sniper at: 10/10/02 1:37:28 pm

    stan741
    Member
    Posts: 23
    (10/10/02 12:41:50 pm)
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    All Mosins are 7.62X54R.This is a very strong cartridge that moves an average of about 2600 FPS.It is almost equal to a 30/06 in power.
    The ammo is widely available and average cost is about .07 per round.
    It is a very accurate round and good for hunting as well as target shooting.
    And wait till you see the muzzle flash from an M44 at dusk!With certain ammo you can also see it in daylight.You will run regular shooters away from you at the range with it's muzzle blast alone.
    But they are not bad to shoot.I am kinda recoil sensitive and yet when I do go to the range I will go thru 50 or better shells.A good short dependable strong gun for around $50? How can that be a bad thing?
    The more I listen, the more I hear......and vice versa.

    1952Sniper
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 254
    (10/10/02 12:54:52 pm)
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    Here's the muzzle flash from an M44. Like stan741 said, it's pretty bright.


    Macht kaputt, was euch kaputt macht!

    stan741
    Member
    Posts: 24
    (10/10/02 3:53:38 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Thank you 1952sniper.
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    THAT'S the picture I was looking for.Boy if that don't sell him,nothing will.

    1952Sniper
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 258
    (10/10/02 4:03:39 pm)
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    Hey stan, I never heard back from you on what you found when you went to look for the stamp in the wood under the butt plate of your M44s. I found the same number on the inside of the butt plate too.
    Macht kaputt, was euch kaputt macht!

    stan741
    Member
    Posts: 25
    (10/10/02 7:45:14 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Numbers under M44 buttplates
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    1952sniper, I got sidetracked when I told you that and then forgot about it.I just went and checked 6 M44's.One Polish,one Romanian and four Hungarian.The Romanian had the number 8 under the buttplate and one Hungarian had the number 34.The rest had some misc. funny little cartouches but no numbers.
    I apologize for not remembering to do that when I told you I would.

    1952Sniper
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 259
    (10/10/02 8:14:20 pm)
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    No need for an apology... geez. Thanks for checking though. Mine's a Russkie, so maybe it was just on the Russian M44's that they did that. Who knows.

    Hey prezzzzz, that's another thing about the Mosin Nagants (well, really all mil-surps). Just when you think you have them figured out, they throw you another curve ball. Now I'll have to buy a few more M44's just to check them to see if they have the stamped numbers under the butt plate. I'll call it "research expenditures".
    Macht kaputt, was euch kaputt macht!

    prezzzzz
    Member
    Posts: 7
    (10/10/02 8:24:39 pm)
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    Okay....I SOLD!!! I'll a be lookin' this weekend for the M44!!!

    Hope I'll have a report of good news Sat.

    chad
    Member
    Posts: 28
    (10/10/02 8:54:18 pm)
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    If you get into nagants be sure to pick up a M39. I spent around $80 on mine. Stock was kind of rough, but after stripping, light stain, and 5 coats of varnish the gun is beautiful and accurate. If you need any Nagant parts I've got a load of links.
    P.S. tell those guys at the show to drive over to Alabama. Haven't been to a show in a while.

    1952Sniper
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 261
    (10/10/02 9:23:43 pm)
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    Hey prezzzzz, if you get the M44, make sure you shoot it with the bayonet extended. They were designed to be shot that way. Otherwise, you'll have to adjust the front sight.

    Not to jump the gun (so to speak), but after you get a Mosin or two, you will definitely need a Turk Mauser. They are even cheaper than the current batch of M44's. They can be pretty rough, but are a good value. Once I get this M44 cleaned up I'll post pics of it, but here's some pics of my newly refinished Turk.




    Macht kaputt, was euch kaputt macht!

    prezzzzz
    Member
    Posts: 8
    (10/10/02 9:28:06 pm)
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    Great info....thank you. Are the bayonets removable on the M44's? If so, that would be bargining leverage if it was missing.

    Nice job on the Turk!!

    stan741
    Member
    Posts: 26
    (10/10/02 9:49:26 pm)
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    1952sniper, If you show me just one more pic of that damn good looking Turk I'm gonna make you sell it to me.
    Geez, you did a good job on that one.
    The more I listen, the more I hear......and vice versa.

    TallTLynn
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 4760
    (10/10/02 10:28:10 pm)
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    ezSupporter
    Re: Re:Mosin caliber
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    prezzz - they are fixed bayonets on the M44's.

    I suppose you could remove them but it would defeat the purpose of that particular rifle.


    prezzzzz
    Member
    Posts: 9
    (10/10/02 10:52:16 pm)
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    Okay....thank you.

    1952Sniper
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 264
    (10/11/02 7:25:20 am)
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    thanks stan. I am unashamedly proud of that Turk. No doubt when my M44 project is complete, I'll be showing it off too.

    prezzzzz, the M44 has a side-folding bayonet. It folds to the right side of the barrel. It can be removed, but I wouldn't recommend it. As I stated above, it will affect the accuracy and would require you to adjust the front sight. FYI, the M44 is the exact same gun as the M38, but the M38 does not have the bayonet. If the whole bayonet issue bothers you, buy an M38. But the M44's are cheaper and more widely available right now.

    The bayonet can be removed by unscrewing a screw that holds it to the bayo lug. These are usually peened in place, so a small amount of grinding may need to be done. It's no biggie, but I would just leave it on.
    Macht kaputt, was euch kaputt macht!

    prezzzzz
    Member
    Posts: 12
    (10/11/02 9:43:34 am)
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    Sound good. I'll hunt for a M44 and leave it alone with the bayonet on. When I get more comfortable with what I'm doing, I will probably start the a restoration project on one of them when I have 2 or 3 rifles.

    I'm going to leave my VZ-24 just like it is. There is something about it that I like unrestored. It has a lot of character the way it is (to me). So maybe the M44 will be my restore project.

    I also have a hankering for C&R Semi-auto, probably a Yugo SKS. If I find one this weekend, got any advice? I know they don't have the chromium barrel liner so I will be extra cautious there. Or I may wait until I get my C&R license and get one from AIM. They seem a little cheaper than I've seen at the gun shows. However, at the gun show, you actually get your hands on it before you buy it, so that may be worth a few extra bucks.

    Thank you and every one else for helping me learn about all this. I'm excited about having a new, fun and realitivly inexpensive hobby.

    1952Sniper
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 271
    (10/11/02 10:33:19 am)
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    Yes, I would recommend the Yugo SKS. It's a blast, and in my opinion it's one of the best SKS's around. You're 100% correct, they don't have a chrome bore. But as long as you buy one that you can look at first, you should have no problems. I prefer a non-chrome bore anyway. You might also want to check out the grenade launcher gas shutoff valve, as these have a reputation for being leaky and causing the rifle to not cycle. You might not be able to tell without firing it though. So it wouldn't hurt to ask the guy if it can be returned/exchanged if the valve is faulty. But even if not, you can buy a new valve and gas tube pretty cheap.

    What the heck... I'll show off a picture of my Yugo SKS too.



    ---------edit------------
    I don't know how much longer the Yugo SKS's will be around. If you're planning on getting your C&R, you're looking at a minimum of 6 weeks worth of waiting. Aim certainly has good prices, but I don't think they will guarantee how long the Yugos will last. It's your call; either pay a little more at a gun show and get one now, or risk waiting for your C&R to get one cheaper.
    Macht kaputt, was euch kaputt macht!

    Edited by: 1952Sniper at: 10/11/02 11:38:35 am

    prezzzzz
    Member
    Posts: 14
    (10/11/02 10:43:03 am)
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    Okay.........thanks. It's sounds like these guns may run in cycles. Now you see 'em, now you don't kind of thing. So if I find one, I should probably get it.

    Nice looking SKS by the way. Did you restore it?

    1952Sniper
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 272
    (10/11/02 11:04:31 am)
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    Yeah, my point was that there was a big influx of the Yugos, and everybody is buying them. There are only so many out there, and when they're gone, they're gone. Now is the time to buy them while they're cheap and readily available. It's quite possible that this is the last batch of SKS's that will ever be imported. Norincos are banned, the Russian, Albanian, and Romanian SKS's have dried up. So when the Yugo's dry up too, there won't be any more SKS's coming into the country unless someone finds another "undiscovered" batch. But even if they do, the anti-gun legislation is getting tougher and tougher all the time. Our beloved Federal Government may decide that they don't want to let any more into the country because they are evil. I'm not a soothsayer or anything; I'm just suggesting that you get one while you can. Otherwise, the only Yugos out there will be pre-owned.

    The only "restoration" I did on my Yugo was to clean the cosmoline off, then stain the wood and apply boiled linseed oil. I lucked out and got one that has almost perfect bluing, an excellent bore and fully-functional gas shutoff valve, without inspecting it before I bought it.
    Macht kaputt, was euch kaputt macht!

    Bob In St Louis
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3077
    (10/11/02 11:07:14 am)
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    I ordered 5 of the Yugo 59/66 rifles from AIM about two months ago, and they arrived within a week from the time I ordered them. They were the $169 ones, and they looked to be new/unfired, with maybe an extremely minor buff or ding from handling.
    Crusty Cruffler of Fine Spanish Pistols - Eibar Rules!

    prezzzzz
    Member
    Posts: 15
    (10/11/02 11:15:24 am)
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    Is this one from AIM?

    prezzzzz
    Member
    Posts: 16
    (10/11/02 11:16:29 am)
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    59/66? SKS?

    Bob In St Louis
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3078
    (10/11/02 11:26:05 am)
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    The Yugo 59/66 is the SKS with the attached grenade launcher. I am not sure where Sniper got his from, but it does look like he has refinished the stock some. All of the ones I got, the stocks were still new, and not really finished down - kind of rough finished still (not sanded down smooth), and not soaked in cosmoline.
    Crusty Cruffler of Fine Spanish Pistols - Eibar Rules!

    mckheean
    Member
    Posts: 39
    (10/11/02 11:29:17 am)
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    Just checked my Log book since receiveing my C&R FFL in March 2002.37 long guns 12 pistols it sure is addictive and fun.I am looking for something else to buy but I think I have everything that has been advertised since March.Still waiting on my Stemia & Hartford Colt from JLD. Benny

    prezzzzz
    Member
    Posts: 17
    (10/11/02 11:47:21 am)
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    Uh-oh..............sounds like I might be headed for trouble. LOL!

    I call the ATF in Atlanta and they are sending me the application.

    Just curious here. Am I correct in assuming that it is not his easy to get a FFL?

    1952Sniper
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 273
    (10/11/02 11:47:40 am)
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    My M59/66 came from J&G. The stock did not have a finish that I could see. The wood was very open-grained and not smooth at all. I have heard of some Yugos with a tight grain, but the majority seem to be this rough open grain. And generally speaking, they never seem to have any finish...
    Macht kaputt, was euch kaputt macht!

    Bob In St Louis
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3080
    (10/11/02 12:06:35 pm)
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    What did you do to your stock? It looks kind of shiney in the photo, so I assumed you have done some finish work on it. That was what I was describing with the ones I got - kind of an open rough grain wood. I haven't started refinishing one yet - I have about 4 more VZ24s to work on ahead of them!
    Crusty Cruffler of Fine Spanish Pistols - Eibar Rules!

    Edited by: Bob In St Louis at: 10/11/02 1:07:07 pm

    mckheean
    Member
    Posts: 40
    (10/11/02 12:07:56 pm)
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    prezzzzz it is no trouble as long as you have a clean record.Type in BATF in your brouser and download a applacation for the C&R,feel it out along with 30.00 and send it in. Start saving your money for the good deals that come along from AIM,SOG,CENTURY,SARCO,SAMCO JUST TO NAME A FEW. Benny in NC

    1952Sniper
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 275
    (10/11/02 12:49:11 pm)
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    Here, I'll save you the trouble of hunting for it.

    Go to www.atf.treas.gov/forms and scroll down to the 5000 series of forms. Click on 5300 - the firearms and ammunition programs section, then scroll down to the form ATF F 5310.16. That is a PDF document containing the application. It must be printed on 8.5x14 paper.

    Bob, are you talking about the SKS stock or the Turk stock? The turk is finished with 3 coats of Minwax Tung Oil Finish. The SKS has a couple of coats of BLO, topped with some paste wax that I wish I had never put on it.

    Macht kaputt, was euch kaputt macht!

    Bob In St Louis
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3081
    (10/11/02 12:55:52 pm)
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    I was talking about the SKS. I have been trying to figure the best approach to putting a finer finish on one of my Yugos. I don't know what kind of wood that is, but it sure is some rough stuff!
    Crusty Cruffler of Fine Spanish Pistols - Eibar Rules!

    1952Sniper
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 277
    (10/11/02 1:30:30 pm)
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    Well, if it's authenticity you're after, it should be left rough. I wish I knew what type of wood it was. Every picture I've seen of Yugo SKS's in service were rough wood. I guess they wanted to minimize any type of glare or shine that would betray a hidden soldier. But usually the color of the wood was very light, so go figure....

    I actually did some light sanding of the wood, just to knock it back down to some semblance of uniformity. I could tell from the very beginning that it would take way too much work to get it perfectly smooth, so I opted for a compromise.
    Macht kaputt, was euch kaputt macht!

    prezzzzz
    Member
    Posts: 18
    (10/12/02 7:54:24 pm)
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    Well, I went to the show today and came home with a Russian Mosin-Nagant 91/30. IT's in real good shape but had a small chip in the butt and and couple of usual dings. But best of all, it's a shooter. The owner was the guy selling it at the show, he has owned this rifle for 21 years and said he shoots it at least 5 times a year. He also sold me all his remaining ammo for it for cheap. 260 rounds for $10.00.

    I got the rifle for $70.00. No bayonet or cleaning rod.

    Did I do pretty good?
    Bob In St Louis
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3086
    (10/12/02 8:32:38 pm)
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    Sounds about average for a good shooter 91/30. Depending on markings, it could be worth a bit more - lots of different years, etc.!
    Crusty Cruffler of Fine Spanish Pistols - Eibar Rules!

    prezzzzz
    Member
    Posts: 19
    (10/12/02 9:02:51 pm)
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    These are the markings except mine says 1942 instead of 1944.

    www.mosin-nagant.net/Russianmark44iz.jpg

    prezzzzz
    Member
    Posts: 20
    (10/12/02 9:41:26 pm)
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    What modern day ammo can I get for the 7.62 x 54R round? Who makes it?

    TallTLynn
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 4773
    (10/13/02 8:46:12 am)
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    ezSupporter
    Re: Re:Mosin caliber
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    prezzzz - you know I'm not sure. I just have been using Wolf ammo. And by the way using Milsurp ammo is okay - you just got to clean the gun really good after your done with it.

    prezzzzz
    Member
    Posts: 21
    (10/13/02 8:56:37 am)
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    That's all I got so far is Milsurp ammo. I cleaned the Mosin last night and run some rounds through it to check the loading and ejection. About every 5th round would not fit into the chamber. It would go in about 95% but not fully in. I thought that was odd being military ammo, because the last thing you would want to happen in battle is have a jam.

    1952Sniper
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 288
    (10/14/02 7:27:53 am)
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    Sounds like you might need to check the chamber for any burrs or buildup (or corrosion). Check your casings. Do they have deep scratches on them from chambering or ejection? How does the bolt feel when chambering or ejecting a round? Is it smooth and easy, or does it take some effort? Does the number on the bolt match the number on the receiver?

    Depending on what type of ammo this gun has shot, it's also possible that there may be lacquer buildup in the chamber. This is fairly common to semi-autos, but I guess it could happen in a bolt action if the previous owner had been shooting ammo with steel casings.

    Be very careful about cleanup after shooting mil-surp ammo! Most of this stuff uses corrosive primers, and a "regular" cleaning will not do the job. You need to be using a product that will neutralize the corrosive salts (Hoppes #9 Nitro solvent is one). A common method is using Windex with ammonia to flush out the barrel, followed by a regular cleaning. The ammonia will neutralize the salts and buy you some time to get back to the house for cleaning. Do not shoot corrosive ammo unless you can at least hose it out with Windex after shooting. This is just my opinion, and someone here will probably disagree with me. But I would rather be safe than sorry.
    Macht kaputt, was euch kaputt macht!

    prezzzzz
    Member
    Posts: 23
    (10/14/02 9:10:33 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Re:Mosin caliber
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    Very good advice, thank you.

    There is a little scratch on the rounds that won't go in. It's on the neck down right by the bullet.

    But the strange thing is, It's not but every 5th round or so. The rest of the rounds load and eject with a smooth positive action. Also, the round that jammed, when I try it again, I get the same results. My gut instinct is the round is faulty, not the chamber. Being a "newbie", I might be way off here though.





    1952Sniper
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 290
    (10/14/02 9:50:35 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Re:Mosin caliber
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    Well, there's one way to check: you have 260 rounds. Set aside the one that won't fit, and check a bunch of the others. If you run across more that won't fit, set them aside too. You might want to mic the ones that won't fit, just for posterity (if you have a set of calipers). Also, with a flashlight and magnifying lens, carefully check the chamber and see if you see anything. Feel it with your finger for any roughness or burrs. It could the ammo, or it could be your chamber. Or heck, it could be a combination of both. But if it is a rough spot in the chamber, you may have problems ejecting all spent rounds, since the fired casings will be expanded and fire-formed to the chamber dimensions.

    I guess what I'm saying is that the one round that won't fit might be an indicator. The cheapest way to check right now is to just chamber every round you have, and see how many others won't go in. If it's a significant number, then I'd look at the chamber as the problem area.
    Macht kaputt, was euch kaputt macht!

    prezzzzz
    Member
    Posts: 24
    (10/14/02 9:59:36 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Re:Mosin caliber
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    Sounds good. I'll do that this evening. Also, I didn't think about the fact that the round will expand after being fired, therefore it won't come out as easily. I'll check deeper into it this evening.

    Thanks again.

    Chas
    Member
    Posts: 29
    (10/29/02 6:05:12 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Re:1952sniper's Turk
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    Quote:

    "Mismatched bolt (check the headspace before buying, if possible, but definitely before firing)"

    How would one go about checking the headspace?

    thanks,

    chas


    prezzzzz
    Member
    Posts: 27
    (10/29/02 8:09:45 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Re:1952sniper's Turk
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    A qualified gunsmith should do it. He simply loads a gauge in the chamber just like a bullet (in fact, it looks like a bullet) and if the chamber closes and locks with this over size gauge, the headspace is too large.

    The first gunsmith did it for me for $15.00. I thought this was high being that it took all of 3 seconds to do it. I have since found one that will do it for $3.00

    Or you could buy your own gauge and do it yourself. But they are sort of expensive to buy all the calibers you need. About $25.00 to $30.00 each.

    Chas
    Member
    Posts: 30
    (10/30/02 12:29:32 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del best sks
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    Thanks prezzzzz!!

    Is there a preference when it comes to the SKS? The gun shop where I do most of my business has a Yugo and Romanian (and maybe others, I don't recall). The Romanian is a little more $$$.

    If I wanted to buy one and had a choice, which would be the better gun?

    thanks,

    Chas

    "Whopped 'em again Josey"

    TallTLynn
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 4853
    (10/30/02 12:35:35 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del
    ezSupporter
    Re: best sks
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    Chas - go with the Romanian and not the Yugo. THe Yugo is the one with a grenade launcher and it does not have a chromed barrel. Less life span for shooting.

    prezzzzz
    Member
    Posts: 28
    (10/30/02 8:22:49 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: best sks
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    Your gonna here Pros and cons for each one. I've read the quality of the Yugos are on par with the Russians.

    I've also read that the lack of chrome bore is no big deal unless you are planned to fire 100 rounds every day and not clean it. You just to be sure to clean it thoroughly. The chrome bore is not as much of a longevity issue as much as it is a resistance to corrosion issue.


    I would go with which one looks in best shape for the cheapest price.

    I guess it's like asking Ford or Chevy?

    1952Sniper
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 382
    (10/30/02 8:25:44 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: best sks
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    I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with ya there, TallTLynn. The Yugo is a very high-quality gun as SKS's go. The non-chrome bore is not a problem if you take care of it. The Yugos have been found to be the most accurate SKS's around, ranking up there with the Russians due to quality in the manufacturing process. Don't get me wrong - the Romanians are nice too. But considering the relatively cheap prices right now on the Yugos, that's what I would recommend.

    Chas - definitely check the headspace on any old rifle before firing. I bought field gauges for the Turk Mauser and M44 (which will fit any Mosin-Nagant), and they were about $20 each, shipped. I found that my Turk had excessive headspace, and I'm waiting on a new bolt to come in, to see if it'll fix the problem. Lots of people will debate on whether this is really necessary for people who don't reload their brass. But when it comes to firearms, I always err on the side of safety. It's not worth losing an eye over. You can buy the headspace gauges from www.brownells.com or www.lockstock.com . If you have any questions about how to do the check, let me know. It's easy.
    Macht kaputt, was euch kaputt macht!

    TallTLynn
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 4855
    (10/30/02 9:03:00 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del
    ezSupporter
    Re: best sks
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    1952sniper - I myself would have no problem with the Yugo SKS. But having heard the horror stories from people I've met (in person) on the internet in other forums I've got to wonder how well they were taken care of before they became excess and shipped to America to sell to us eager collectors.

    Some of them are down right shot out while others are not - it's not the easiest thing in the world to decide on.

    That being said - I do own one though I've not had the opportunity to shoot it yet.

    1952Sniper
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 385
    (10/30/02 9:11:44 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: best sks
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    You're right there... Some of them can best be described as total crap. But it seems that there are some really good ones out there. Everybody that has bought one recently from Aim has had good feedback about the condition of the M59/66's. Even the $89 special shooter-grade ones.

    It seems that the first shipment that came over (the ones that people paid upwards of $250-$300 for, thinking they were the only ones to ever be imported) were in poor shape. I think the recent large shipments of Yugos are good though. The one I got from J&G was sold as VG condition, but I would rate it more along the lines of excellent. Bore is shiny as all get-out, no problems with the gas shut-off valve.

    The best bet would be to see it in person before buying, to look at the bore. Aim guarantees a bright shiny bore, so IMHO if you can't see it first, buy from Aim.
    Macht kaputt, was euch kaputt macht!

    prezzzzz
    Member
    Posts: 29
    (10/30/02 9:42:42 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: best sks
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    I would opt for the Yugo in Unissued condition. That way, there is less of a chance that the non-chrome bore is permanently pitted or scored.

    If you catch one that has a good bore, the non-chrome bore will last a lifetime with good cleaning habits.

    Bob In St Louis
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3190
    (10/30/02 10:59:13 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: best sks
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    1952Sniper is right - the first batch of Yugos released were the crappy used ones, and they sold for high dollar. Then the better ones in reserve were released, and are currently going for a lot less. For a change, I am glad I waited on that one!

    I am currently jumping on the Albanian SKS from AIM for $125 - will see what I get. I love restoring rifles, so I figure as long as the bore and internals are in very good to excellent shape, I can restore the exterior.
    Crusty Cruffler of Fine Spanish Pistols - Eibar Rules!

    Chas
    Member
    Posts: 31
    (10/30/02 11:30:26 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: best sks
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    If I don't plan on launching grenades (which would be really cool), is it a mechanical drawback over time to have one? I might pay a little more for a Romanian in order to avoid this problem down the road...is it worth the worry?

    This has been a good education for me...thanks to everyone!

    Chas

    "Whopped 'em again Josey"


    Page 1 2 3 4 prezzzzz
    Member
    Posts: 30
    (10/30/02 11:30:42 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: best sks
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    You guys are killing me!!! As I'm sitting here twiddling my thumbs waiting for my C&R license to show up.

    You guys save a SKS for me! I want one.

    1952Sniper
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 386
    (10/30/02 12:40:12 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: best sks
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I hear ya, prezzzzz. I'm waiting for mine too. If you absolutely can't stand it, just order through an FFL.

    Chas, my opinion on the grenade launcher is that it's not going to be a problem down the road if properly cared for. The actual GL on the end of the barrel helps a LOT with muzzle jump, due to the extra weight and if you get one with the compensator holes, it makes the recoil just slightly more than a .22 Hornet. The first time I shot my Yugo, I had to look at it again to make sure it actually was an SKS. But as for the gas shut-off valve, it does require more cleaning than a standard SKS, and it is prone to leaking. I've never had a problem, but some have. But the thing I like about it is that you can just turn off the gas and use it as a pull-bolt rifle. Turning off the gas will increase accuracy if you really need it.

    Bob, I hope you're not hoping for the Albanian SKS to be the prize of your SKS collection. Those things are pretty rough. They're good shooters I guess, but the inletting is crude, to say the least. Their value is mostly on the collector side due to their rarity and historical value (as to when and where they were made). Most people who are buying them as their first SKS are severely disappointed, and it turns them off to other SKS's. So they have a bad reputation. I think they're fine though (I don't own one, but I've seen them in person).
    Macht kaputt, was euch kaputt macht!

    Bob In St Louis
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3191
    (10/30/02 12:40:40 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: best sks
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The grenade launcher on the end of the barrel is no mechanical problem if you are going to just do regular shooting and never launch grenades. In fact, it does extend the length of the barrel, and serves a bit as a flash hider/muzzle break.
    Crusty Cruffler of Fine Spanish Pistols - Eibar Rules!

    zednedbesty
    Member
    Posts: 1
    (12/31/02 12:13:39 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Getting an M44
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Hey, buddy congradulations on deciding to buy a M44, I just got one a week ago, and am already looking at an SKS! You'll love the Ker-pow along with that muzzle flash. I can see it in daylight looking down the end of the barrell just after firing, it almost looks like it's gonna get me! I took my gun over to show my dad in the country and shot it for him, I scared the crap out of him, all he could talk about was how loud it was. I got mine for $55, no accesories, but those will come. I can't wait to get to a range to see if I can hit anything. I am also looking into getting a C & R license.

    ZED


    zednedbesty
    Member
    Posts: 2
    (12/31/02 12:26:30 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Nevermind
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I only read the first page before replying! I didn't see that there were more. Congradulations on the M91/30! I am going to apply for C&R tomorrow I think, I would also like a Yugo SKS.



    prezzzzz
    Member
    Posts: 48
    (12/31/02 7:58:47 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Cool!!
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    Cool!! This thread got restarted since I orginally posted back in early October!!

    We'll, A lot has happened since then. I got my C&R license towards the beginning of Dec.

    Since I orginally started this thread, I have aquired the following:

    1. Russian Mosin Nagant 91/30
    2. M1 Carbine
    3. German 98 Mauser
    4. Russian M44
    5. Yugo SKS (Excellent)
    6 Yugo SKS (Excellent)
    7. Spanish FR-8 Mauser
    8. French 49/56


    warpig883
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 5667
    (12/31/02 7:59:31 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del
    ezSupporter
    Re: Nevermind
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Howdy zednedbesty
    Don't blame yourself or anyone else for your mistakes or the downfalls of the USA. BLAME PRESIDENT BUSH.

    Bob In St Louis
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3524
    (12/31/02 10:44:24 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Nevermind
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Hey Prezzzzz - ya got the bug bad, man!

    Ballistic
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 76
    (12/31/02 5:38:35 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Nevermind
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    hey prezzzzz, can ya post pics of your german mauser? if not email them to me, i have been looking to get one of these... also how much did ya pay?

    thanks alot,
    Don Lloyd

    atf_ballistic@yahoo.com

    prezzzzz
    Member
    Posts: 49
    (12/31/02 10:03:10 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Nevermind
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Ballistic,

    Here's a link to a pic on the net. I'll post it this way in case anyone else wants to see it.

    Here's the fun part. I bought this at a Gunshow last month for $90.00!!!!! It's in Excellent condition and shoots like a dream!!! I finally got a Gunshow deal!!!

    album.gunsnet.net/showpic...uid=prezzz

    mckheean
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 93
    (1/3/03 10:14:36 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del K98
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    That a nice rifle prezzzzz for 90.00,they usually run 200.00 plus. Benny in Nc



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