What was the best Cold War Tank

Discussion in 'General Military Arms & History Forum' started by ysacres, Mar 7, 2003.

  1. ysacres

    ysacres Well-Known Member

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    Tank commanderA24
    Member
    Posts: 16
    (5/9/02 11:59:27 am)
    Reply What was the best Cold War Tank
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    So guys what do you think was the best tank of the 60s and 70s.Please give your reasons why. If you have another to add post that as well. I'll post mine in a later thread.

    TCA24
    Cheiftain GB
    M60A1 USA
    Leopard 1 GER
    T62 USSR
    AMX30 FR

    Show results


    Tank commanderA24
    Member
    Posts: 17
    (5/12/02 3:53:03 pm)
    Reply Re: What was the best Cold War Tank
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    Well I guess this was a poor topic to put forward. That said I will let you guys in on my pick.

    I think the Chieftain was the best tank in Europe during the cold war until the 3rd generation MBTs came on line, the M1 LeopardII etc...

    The Chieftain had excellent armor protection and a highly accurate and effective gun in 120mm. It could kill anything the Soviets could field. It was hampered in its early life with an unreliable engine but by the late 70s it was much improved. Its gunnery system was a little weak at long range but once up dated to a laser range finder it was the equal of any in NATO.

    The AMX30 and LeopardI were fast but poorly armored coulded last in a stand up fight. The M60A1 was a good tank but had a rather high silhoutte and not as well armored as the Chieftain.

    Give my choice I'd go Chieftain.

    TC
    Armor Rules

    Tac401
    Administrator
    Posts: 4515
    (5/12/02 4:21:33 pm)
    Reply zSupporter Re: What was the best Cold War Tank
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    TC,

    Not a poor topic at all, a couple of the folks who post
    in here regualarlly are out of town for awhile, Polish is
    one of them however, he'll be checkin in when he can
    and will be back soon!

    Good post my friend, I don't know much about tanks
    but I'll put a vote in and take a whack at it!
    TFF VMBB Email Tac

    Xracer
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 2122
    (5/14/02 8:45:34 am)
    Reply Re: What was the best Cold War Tank
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    Hi TC......I didn't make a choice, mainly because I'm not that familiar with Cold War armor.

    I'm pretty familar with the WWII stuff......but not the later tanks.

    polishshooter
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3524
    (5/19/02 11:04:56 pm)
    Reply Re: What was the best Cold War Tank
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I don't know, but at the risk of sounding like a "homey" I have to go with the M60.

    If you keep in mind that British, and Israeli, (and others) doctrine stress long range, accurate firing from STOPPED hull down positions, it's not really an apples to apples comparison.

    The M60 WAS designed for mobile operations, shooting on the move, and above all, mechanical reliability. (which is a hallmark of American designs since the M4)

    And it STILL is "as good" as any likely adversary in the world.

    And it is also funny, that even with their liking for stopped accuracy, the Israeli's achieved their biggest and most successful armored triumphs with the M60, or at least M48s or "Super Sherman's" in the lead...

    First, the only tanks which are truly valuable are those that are "up" when they are needed.

    If you look at daily "ready for service" rates in comparible units, I'd just bet the M60 leads the pack, even compared to the Abrams.

    Second, is it easily maintained? Again, the M60 (I think) is king.

    Third, crew comfort. That "high silhouette" has SOME advantages. And the "Low silhouette" of the Soviet stuff has it's disadvantages too...like when the Syrians and Egyptians thought the Israelis were using nerve agents, when they couldn't figure out why so many of their Russian tanks were "out of service" because of "crew fatigue." Cramped, non-airconditioned tanks in the Desert? Come on...(not to mention the "advanced" automatic loader...introduced to eliminate one crew member in the cramped turret...but also means one less body to share maintenance chores and guard duty...)

    Believe it or not, armor and gun is NOT necessarily the best way to measure a tank...merely "adequate" coupled with the other advantages CAN mean a better tank...and I think it did in the M60...

    I respectively submit that since 1939, it IS the tanks with the greatest mechanical reliability, and mobility, that wins wars...the gun and armor is secondary. In other words, DOCTRINE.


    The M60 to me is kinda like the F4 Phantom...in the hands of a good pilot, a F4 today could STILL hold it's own against any other front-line aircraft in the world, except possibly (some, not all!) newer American designs...and in some cases is BETTER. (possibly even better in some respects than it's replacement, the F/A 18 Hornet...)

    I think the M60 is still a viable weapons system, while others on the list are not.

    Plus. some on the list have never been tried in battle, so any comparison is on paper only.

    Remember, in 1940, the French had much better tanks than the Germans. (On paper.)
    "Don't hear him call you an ---hole, hear WHY he's calling you an ---hole." -------- From "A Season on the Brink"

    polishshooter
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3525
    (5/19/02 11:15:49 pm)
    Reply Re: What was the best Cold War Tank
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    And oh yeah, TCA24, this is a GREAT topic...

    Sorry I wasn't around to stir the pot on it, I just started a new job, my son graduates in 2 weeks, so between the learning and the honey-do list I've been REALLY busy...it should settle down in a little bit and I'll be back alot more...


    One thing about this topic I was curious about is why you didn't include the T54/55 series.

    If you look at sheer numbers made, and numbers STILL in service all over the world, the Chinese, Egyptian etc, copies, the various "Upgrades" with Western guns and fire control systems done by the Egyptians, and the Israelis with captured ones, the Indians, the Pakistanis, and others, you could make a case that IT was the best Cold War tank...

    But I still gotta go with the M60...Hell, it was the tank that held the line through the darkest days of the Cold War, you could even make the case it won it...even if it was the Abrams who put us permanently over the top in the conventional arms race with the WP...

    Kinda like the P51 and the Hellcat and Corsair getting all the credit for being the "best" US WWII fighter, when the P40, P38, P47 and the Wildcat actually "won" it....


    "Don't hear him call you an ---hole, hear WHY he's calling you an ---hole." -------- From "A Season on the Brink"

    Tank commanderA24
    Member
    Posts: 20
    (5/23/02 2:02:49 am)
    Reply Best cold war tank.
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    Polish,
    I didn't post the T54/55 because it was pretty much replaced in Soviet service against Nato by the T-62.
    The 62 was more of a contemporary in Europe with the Chieftain and the M60A1. The T55 would be a Centurion and M48 rival.

    Also the M60A1 as designed was a shoot from the short halt tank. It was not equiped with STAB until the mid to late 70s. The STAB system that was installed was poor to say the least and we always stopped to shoot to have a chance of hitting the target.

    The M60A1 was a reliable tank after 15 years of improvements. I drove one in Germany for 18 months put over 2000 miles on it with out any major brake downs but the other tanks in the platoon had problems. Its like a car some run forever without major problems and others are lemons.

    From what I read and have heard about the Israelies they prefered the Centurion to the M60s. They had thicker armor and no Hydraulics. Remember the hydraulic fires from minor penetrations in the 73 war.
    All the hydraulic lines were under at least 1500lbs of pressure a sure fire ticket to a fire if they burst after a hit. The TCs cupola was another problem they got knocked off a lot. The MG was a pain to load and it always had feeding problems. Though it was more accurate to shoot then the M1 cupola.

    The Chieftain would be a better tank in a slugfest then an M60A1 with its thicker better sloped armor, 120mm gun and lower profile. It was handicapped with a poor engine for a while but when they were side by side which happened once during Reforger 78 we did a passage of lines through a British unit we felt jealious.

    The M60A1 was much roomier then the M1 thats for sure but the M60A3 really was nice the laser range finder took half the room of the old coincedence range finder and really added some room.

    Oh, I just remembered that optical range finder could really be a pain in the butt to use. It was difficult to bore-sight and took a lot of practice to get it right. Some times it didn't work at all. And the aluminum road wheels with teir wear plates, and crap seals on the air cleaners. You would not believe how many engines were burned up due to dirt ingestion through the air filters at Ft Stewart while I was there. The Army started a special oil sample program to try to catch them before the packs blew.

    I have crewed the M48A5, M60A1, M60A3, M1 and Sheridan. So I have an insiders view of US tanks I guess the grass is always greener. Check out the book "Cheiftain" By Rob Griffin He was a Cheiftain TC
    good insight into how the tank was designed and how it worked. They didn't heaters, Government felt it wasn't cold enough in Europe for them.

    Our heaters in the 60s were great when they worked but burned out all they time I had to keep spare ignitors in my hatch to keep the damn thing running. Oh no here I go again.

    TCA24

    Xracer
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 2168
    (5/23/02 7:42:00 am)
    Reply Re: Best cold war tank.
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    By all means, TC....continue. This is fascinating "first hand" stuff that we rarely get to hear.

    Most of us get our military information out of books....it's great to hear from someone who's "been there, done that".

    Tank commanderA24
    Member
    Posts: 22
    (5/23/02 11:18:59 pm)
    Reply Re: Best cold war tank.
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    Xracer,

    If you have any Questions post them and I would be glad to answer them if I can. The M60A1 I had in Germany Was a RISE Passive model. RISE stood for reliability improved selective equipment, they had a low relibility and the Army was trying to improve it. The power pack was easier to pull and the generator could be changed without pulling the engine. We had passive sights instead of IR this was a few years before thermals. We still used the searchlight to supplement the ambient light.

    The tank was easy to drive 2 forward speeds 1 reverse. It had a tricycle like steering handle and I would steer with one hand and shift with the other. Low gear had a smaller turning radius. Neutral steer locked 1 track and the other pulled the tank around. It was not a pivot steer where 1 track spins forward and the other in reverse, the M1 can do it but not the M60s.

    TCA24
    Armor Rules

    Xracer
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 2177
    (5/24/02 9:48:24 am)
    Reply Re: Best cold war tank.
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    Hmmmm.....if they leaked oil too, sounds like a few British cars I've owned.

    A number of the current tanks seem to have smoothbore guns.....doesn't that destroy the accuracy?

    Edited by: Xracer at: 5/24/02 10:51:27 am

    Tank commanderA24
    Member
    Posts: 24
    (5/24/02 11:24:08 pm)
    Reply Smooth bores.
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    Xracer,

    The smooth bores with the right rounds are just as accurate or more so then the rifled guns. They use the fin stabilized rounds which don't need to spin. Heat rounds work better without spining. The smooth bores get a higher muzzle velocity giving a flatter trajectory being more accurate. The brits stuck with rifled guns because they like HEP for its explosive effect. We use MPAT and a dual purpose HEAT round instead.

    Smooth bores are also a breeze to clean no rifleing grooves to clean around. It takes 4 strong tankers to punch a 105mm gun its alot of work. I have heard that 2 tankers can punch the 120mm.

    My M1 still only has the 120mm I don't know if my battalion will get A1s we may be on the chopping block as the Guard gets reorged.

    TCA24

    Xracer
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 2183
    (5/25/02 8:50:24 am)
    Reply Re: Smooth bores.
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    Thanks TC. Next time I'm in the market for a used tank, I'll know who to ask for advice.

    Do you have anything in the 60-ton class, reliable, good on gas, suitable for going over rush-hour traffic?

    17th FA Bn
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 116
    (5/25/02 9:11:35 am)
    Reply What is a MPAT
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    Hey tanker what does MPAT stand for? Do you know what the blast radius of the HEAT round is? Is any thing done to the HEAT round when it is used as a HE round instead of in the armour piercing roll?

    polishshooter
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3549
    (5/26/02 8:07:22 pm)
    Reply Re: What is a MPAT
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    TC, have we stopped using the Sheridan, or not?

    I thought it was phased out in the 80s, then I read we used some in the Gulf.

    Then not long ago I read somewhere where it was suggested as an "MBT alternative" in the airtransportable role where no other tank would be available on short notice...

    What gives? Is it still in inventory? If it was, it would be pretty good for a tank that served in Vietnam...and has been around a while before that.

    If we still have it, does it still used the 152mm/Shilleghleh (however you spell it) system?

    How did that work?


    "Don't hear him call you an ---hole, hear WHY he's calling you an ---hole." -------- From "A Season on the Brink"

    Tank commanderA24
    Member
    Posts: 26
    (5/28/02 10:03:06 pm)
    Reply Re: What is a MPAT
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    Sorry it took a while to get back to you guys. I wanted to be sure of my facts so I dug out my FM disc. Thats right I have the gunnery manual on CD-ROM they don't print them anymore they want you to down load them.Anyway.

    MPAT- multi-purpose anti tank. It is a secondary armor defeating round for light armor as well as bunkers and personnel. It also has an anti helicopter role. It has an air ground switch that is set before it is fired. In the airmode it has a proxcimity fuse. The manual says the primary anti personnel effect of HEAT and MPAT is from the casing fragmentation. Though I imagine the blast of 6-8 pounds of military explosive is not a good thing to stand near.

    Polish except for OPFOR at Ft Irwin the Sheridan is gone. The 82nd Airborne had them into the early 90s but has since traded them in for HumVees. They were wore out in 1978 when I last served on them they needed to go. Unfortunately they were traded in without a suitable replacement. I do not
    think the Styker will do a very good job in there stead.

    The Sheridans were not very reliable sometimes running at only 50% readiness in our unit and I was in the border CAV. The recoil was fierce when conventional round were fired and it beat the hell out of the engine and missle electronics. Parts were hard to come by in 1978 I can't imagine it got better except they could strip all the decommissioned ones. Everyone but the driver was cramped. The ammo racks were collapsable when empty which gave you a lot of room. When they ran they were fast but it wasn't often. The main gun when using HEAT was good to 800 meters the missle took over at 1200 or so a bit of dead space.

    TCA24
    Armor Rules

    polishshooter
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3558
    (6/4/02 9:58:23 pm)
    Reply Re: What is a MPAT
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    TC, can you use the proximity fuse when firing MPAT at ground targets? Seems like it would make a helluva APers round exploding right in front of enemy troops in light cover/foliage with the shrapnel/blast carrying on through...

    Does it have to travel some distance before arming so it doesn't det on friendly stuff close by?
    "Don't hear him call you an ---hole, hear WHY he's calling you an ---hole." -------- From "A Season on the Brink"

    Tank commanderA24
    Member
    Posts: 34
    (6/5/02 4:32:10 pm)
    Reply Re: What is a MPAT
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    Well Polish you made me break out the book again. It says in ground mode the MPAT is used like any othe HEAT round and can be used against bunkers, buildings, light AFVs and troops.

    Just found a new 120mm round the XM908 HE-OR-T, its a highly explosive obstacal reducing round with tracer. Shaped like MPAT but with a steel nosecone. It is meant to penetrate concrete walls and explode inside. It can also be used to reduce concrete obstacles to little pieces which are easier for engineers to clear. The book says it can also reduce bridge pylons to bring down or weaken bridges. Nice!

    Remember the thread on Merkavas well I also checked White phosphorus and the TM says it is temp sensitive and will liquefy at111 deg.F and rounds exposed to such temps sholud not be used. also stowing rounds on their side can cause gas pockets to form making thre flight path erratic. Just had to prove my point with the doubters. From FM 3-20.12 page 4-29.

    TC
    Armor Rules

    Xracer
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 2249
    (6/6/02 5:38:37 pm)
    Reply Re: What is a MPAT
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    "Break out the BOOK!" That's cheating! That's like reading assembly instructions.

    Shame on you TC! Shame, shame, shame!

    Tank commanderA24
    Member
    Posts: 35
    (6/6/02 8:55:43 pm)
    Reply The book
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    Xracer, i was asked questions on the M1A1 a tank I have not been qualified on I am an M1 tanker. So the book is my only source of info on the M1A1.

    Also you should know that the systems are so complex very few people can do it by memory. As a matter of fact we are ordered to use the TM for maintaince, and will get written up if caught pulling maintaince without it.

    TC

    Xracer
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 2256
    (6/7/02 8:06:34 am)
    Reply Re: The book
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    Jus' kiddin', TC......this from a guy whose VCR has been flashing 12:00 for years!

    I'm still working on figuring out the prinicple behind the screwdriver.

    17th FA Bn
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 120
    (6/8/02 10:09:17 am)
    Reply Proximity fuses
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    Polish, you can't use proximity fuses on ground targets from tanks because the trajectory is to flat. Artillery uses proximity fuses on ground targets but their arc of fire is curved shape. When fired from a flat firing weapon like a tank the return from the ground could set off the round prematurely. What would work would be a timed fuse(the fuse detonates the round at a preset time). The tank already has a laser range finder so range would be known precisely. The older time fuses used by the artillery were set by hand, with a special wrench. I hear now they have time fuses that can be set electronically prior to firing.

    Edited by: 17th FA Bn at: 6/9/02 9:27:15 pm

    Go Get Beer
    Member
    Posts: 2
    (6/10/02 3:51:07 am)
    Reply Re: What was the best Cold War Tank
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    AFAIK Oerlikon builds such ammo for their 20-40mm AA guns. Radar measures the distance and the round is programmed as it exits the barrel. It detonates before reaching the target, showering it with shrapnel. In theory it should be useful against cruise missiles. It is still useless for ground targets, because no programming for the targeting computer exists. You'd need to convince it to fire at a ground target.
    That's of course from a complete layman.

    Xracer
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 2271
    (6/10/02 7:27:26 am)
    Reply Re: What was the best Cold War Tank
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    Welcome to TFF GoGetBeer.

    Where do you go get beer at 4:51am?

    Go Get Beer
    Member
    Posts: 3
    (6/10/02 7:54:21 am)
    Reply Re: What was the best Cold War Tank
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    In Poland, where it's 6 hours later.

    Xracer
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 2274
    (6/10/02 11:09:21 am)
    Reply Re: What was the best Cold War Tank
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    Well, double welcome then!

    Stick around here and you can hook up with Polishooter.....he's a Moisen-Nagent Nut and one of our most knowledgabe (and opinionated ) contributors to the Military/History section.

    Glad to have you aboard!

    polishshooter
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3566
    (6/14/02 10:43:37 pm)
    Reply Re: What was the best Cold War Tank
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Yeah and in Poland the drinking age is like 6 I think too...

    My Dad used to recommend teething kids by rubbing whiskey on their gums, unless they were Polish, then it was a shot and a beer...









    (A good old fashioned Polish Highball...)




    And using Reference Books and Manuals are specifically allowed by the rules of this forum, (I make 'em up!)and are considered to be only superceded for accuracy by "facts" gotten from "Grampa," Veterans, and "some guy in a bar..."
    "Don't hear him call you an ---hole, hear WHY he's calling you an ---hole." -------- From "A Season on the Brink"

    Go Get Beer
    Member
    Posts: 10
    (6/17/02 4:12:25 am)
    Reply Re: What was the best Cold War Tank
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    Sorry, Polishshooter, but the legal drinking age in Poland is 18. Which of course doesn't stop anyone from giving beer to a 3-year-old.
    Our drunkards regularly exceed the biological limits of the human body. We had people here driving cars with 0.7 percent of alcohol in blood with the lethal dosis being around 0.3.
    There is your reason for the tables forbidding carrying in alcohol into the Central Park in New York in English and Polish.

    I bet your Polish friends shot better after each beer, too. They care less and less, so their hands shake less.

    Xracer
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 2324
    (6/17/02 8:07:51 am)
    Reply Re: What was the best Cold War Tank
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    Oh, you two are gonna get along just fine!

    polishshooter
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3579
    (6/21/02 6:43:30 am)
    Reply Re: What was the best Cold War Tank
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    Reminds me of the old joke...

    What's an Irish 7 course meal?


    A six pack and a potatoe...(Notice the "official" Indiana spelling, also... )


    What's a Polish 7 course meal....?










    a case.


    "Don't hear him call you an ---hole, hear WHY he's calling you an ---hole." -------- From "A Season on the Brink"

    polishshooter
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3580
    (6/21/02 6:45:08 am)
    Reply Re: What was the best Cold War Tank
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I just got this sent to me by Jane's updates, I thought it was interesting, I hope it copies OK....




    Eurosatory Daily [English]



    20 June 2002
    Beyond the tank

    Paul Beaver

    Lessons from Afghanistan, a plethora of peacekeeping operations and other low intensity operations have led to some observers writing off the main battle tank. Evidence at Eurosatory shows that the tank is not dead: a recent order for Leopard 2A6 from Greece, yet another T-72 upgrade and continued production of Leclerc. But the tank will have to undergo metamorphism, and there is no future tank programme anywhere in NATO.

    Now Western industries are looking at alternative direct fire options. These include technology insertions for the existing main battle tanks, looking at alternatives or finding a replacement main armament. The latter has given rise to a number of programmes looking at armament propulsion and intelligent munitions.

    In the USA, where the US Army says it will not replace the General Dynamics Land Systems M1 with another tank but with the Future Combat System, the goal is a vehicle with the same firepower and protection as M1 yet weighing only 20 tonnes. Improvements could include the United Defense electro-thermal chemical gun propulsion, giving better penetration to the existing Rheinmetall 120mm rifled gun, applicable to the M1 and Leopard 2.

    In Europe, the cleverly designed and compact Swiss Ruag CTG120mm smoothbore gun could find a home in the Challenger 2 series. The French will probably invest in improving Giat's Leclerc as well as watching new technology. There are also political factors. Most Middle East nations will remain wedded to the heavy, main battle tank even longer than the planned 2025 out-of-service date of most European vehicles.

    The British Government too has been politically embarrassed by the continued controversy over depleted uranium (DU) kinetic energy tank gun rounds. If the British Army were to replace the rifled gun with existing ammunition that reportedly has shown its effectiveness against armour, it would possibly negate the need for DU rounds. But one senior officer told the Eurosatory Daily: "Smoothbore guns do not have such an effective ammunition nature as HESH (high explosive squash head). It is a very good general purpose round. DU is only used for fighting tanks."

    The UK Government is unlikely to be prepared to pay the £200 million or so needed for upgrade on political grounds alone.


    Digitisation: making the future tank like the future combat aircraft

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Eurosatory Sponsor


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    © 2002 Jane's Information Group. All rights reserved

    "Don't hear him call you an ---hole, hear WHY he's calling you an ---hole." -------- From "A Season on the Brink"

    polishshooter
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3581
    (6/21/02 6:46:23 am)
    Reply Re: What was the best Cold War Tank
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Crap, the pictures didn't copy...Oh well...
    "Don't hear him call you an ---hole, hear WHY he's calling you an ---hole." -------- From "A Season on the Brink"

    Xracer
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 2350
    (6/21/02 7:27:36 am)
    Reply Re: What was the best Cold War Tank
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    So what's the political problem with the Depleted Uranium rounds? We've been using them in "Warthog" for years. Is it just that the EU is more "politically sensitive" to using DU? And, if so, why?

    17th FA Bn
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 122
    (6/24/02 8:57:56 pm)
    Reply Depleted uranium rounds
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    Depleted uranium rounds are controversial because the have the word "uranium" in their name and that is a scary word to liberals. Also they are very good at killing people in tanks, and the thought of the military killing the enemy is again, scary to liberals.

    polishshooter
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3593
    (7/4/02 12:19:06 am)
    Reply Re: Depleted uranium rounds
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Yeah, but the Brits have a history of this...

    Remember, because of them, we STILL have uninformed media types in this country occasionally railing against POLICE using "dum-dum" bullets...like they even know the difference between them and JHPs....

    But at least they seem consistent this time, if I remember right, when they handled the "dum-dum" controversy in the late 1800s, they decided the "dum-dum" was inhumane if used against Europeans or Christians, but OK if used against the natives out in the frontiers of the empire....

    Maybe I'd have more respect for them if they said something like "We will no longer use DU rounds against anybody but Iraquis..."
    "Don't hear him call you an ---hole, hear WHY he's calling you an ---hole." -------- From "A Season on the Brink"

    Ballistic
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 62
    (12/20/02 6:00:30 am)
    Reply Re: Depleted uranium rounds
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    lmao nice one polish... also anyone know where i can get a half-track? i wanna get one if they are not too expensive... of course i cant get one right now but id like to know for future reference... anyone know specific model numbers of them? or know a page where i can view all the different ones... the US ones... i think it would be badass for offroading in one of them..

    thanks
    don

    Celt
    Member
    Posts: 11
    (12/29/02 7:51:44 pm)
    Reply Re: Proximity fuses
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Those M115 Sheridans where some wild things.
    I rode infantry support a couple times for them while in the 82d during the very early 80s.
    Those tread heads where crazy drivers!
    A tank we (my squad) where on got flipped right over on its back!
    The column was splitting up on two roads. one road veered off to high graound and the other to low ground. Our tank took both LOL, and ended up laying on its turret. Luckily no one was seriously hurt. Only one tread head got any injuries of a broken arm. Us grunt jumped for our lives when we realized what was happening.

    I will say one thing that was great about riding support of the tread heads. We got Hot A's often and even steak in the boonies. When we were on our own it was nasty C rats.

    for the best tanks I would have to say the Cheiftain because of it's armor and gun.

    Celt
    H.D. Rifles

    polishshooter
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3765
    (2/8/03 8:20:29 pm)
    Reply Re: Proximity fuses
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I wonder if the Brits are going to bring any DU rounds with them in the desert this time?
    Anybody who thinks money can buy happiness needs to remember Michael Jackson.
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2003
  2. polishshooter

    polishshooter Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2001
    Messages:
    8,095
    Location:
    Indiana
    DU rounds

    So how many slams have YOU heard from the media about the DU rounds this time around?

    I've caught about half a dozen so far...the latest came a few nights ago when MSNBC had on a supposedly "expert" on Iraq from Al jazeera to talk about the future in Iraq and he kept on trying to bring up DU tank rounds and how the UN shouldn't allow us to use them because they"cause cancer..."

    Somehow I think anybody "exposed" to the DU rounds from an Abrams or a 'hog has more immediate things to worry about than dying from cancer in 30 years....

    At least Chris Matthews kept cutting him off...
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2003
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