What will Obama do? (Russia)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Marlin T, Nov 8, 2008.

  1. Marlin T

    Marlin T Well-Known Member

    Jul 8, 2005
    New Mexico
    More interesting news from Russia. Two stories attached.

    I see that Russia doesn’t care that Obama is for nuclear disarmament of the United States. I wonder if this development will change his mind?


    9K720 Iskander-M (SS-26 Stone)

    Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said on 05 November 2008 that Russia would deploy short-range Iskander missile systems in its Kaliningrad exclave near Poland "to neutralize, if necessary, the anti-ballistic missile system in Europe."

    "I would add something about what we have had to face in recent years: what is it? It is the construction of a global missile defence system, the installation of military bases around Russia, the unbridled expansion of NATO and other similar ‘presents’ for Russia ­ we therefore have every reason to believe that they are simply testing our strength. Of course we will not let ourselves be dragged into an arms race. But we must take this into account in defence expenditures. And we will continue to reliably protect the safety of the citizens of Russia. Therefore I will now announce some of the measures that will be taken. In particular measures to effectively counter the persistent and consistent attempts of the current American administration to install new elements of a global missile defence system in Europe. For example, we had planned to decommission three missile regiments of a missile division deployed in Kozelsk from combat readiness and to disband the division by 2010. I have decided to abstain from these plans. Nothing will disband. Moreover, we will deploy the Iskander missile system in the Kaliningrad Region to be able, if necessary, to neutralise the missile defence system. Naturally, we envisage using the resources of the Russian Navy for these purposes as well. And finally, electronic jamming of the new installations of the U.S. missile defence system will be carried out from the territory of the same westernmost region, that is from Kaliningrad. I want to emphasise that we have been forced to take these measures. We have repeatedly told our partners that we want to engage in positive cooperation. We want to act against common threats and to work together. But unfortunately, very unfortunately, they did not want to listen to us."

    On 05 November 2008 Anatoly Tsyganok, head of the Moscow-based Military Forecast Center, told RIA Novosti that the deployment of Iskander systems with a range of 500 km (310 miles) would allow Russia to target the entire territory of Poland and also parts of Germany and the Czech Republic. The 152nd Independent Missile Brigade deployed outside Chernyakhovsk, Kaliningrad Region, was planned to be re-armed with Iskanders as early as the beginning of 2008.

    The 9K720 Iskander-M (SS-26 Stone) would certainly have a range to strike the Redzikowo missile defense facility in Poland, which is a bit more than 200 km from Kaliningrad. But only an extended range version would be capable of striking the Brdy facility in the Czech Republic, which is more than 600 km from Kaliningrad.

    The road-mobile SS-X-26 was the second attempt to replace the `Scud', since the first attempt, the Oka SS-23 SPIDER, was eliminated under the Intermediate Nuclear Forces (INF) Treaty. The operational requirements for the SS-26 are probably similar to those of the original SS-23. One of the major questions concerning the program is the missile's range. The SS-26 may include a longer range (greater than 400 km) variant for the Russian forces, and a shorter range (less than 300 km) variant for export.

    The deployment of the new Iskander tactical missile systems closes a missile coverage gap caused by Russia's participation in the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty. The Iskander-M (NATO reporting name SS-26 Stone) missile system, considered a successor to the Oka, has a range of at least 400 km (250 miles) and can reportedly carry conventional and nuclear warheads.

    The Soviet Union and the U.S. signed the INF Treaty on 08 December 1987. The agreement came into force in June 1988 and was of indefinite duration. The pact banned nuclear and conventional ground-launched ballistic and cruise missiles with ranges of 500 to 5,500 kilometers (300 to 3,400 miles). The fundamental purpose of the INF Treaty was to eliminate and ban US and former USSR (FSU) ground-launched ballistic and cruise missiles, as well as associated support equipment, with ranges between 500 and 5500 kilometers. By the treaty's deadline of 01 June 1991, a total of 2,692 weapons had been destroyed, 846 by the U.S. and 1,846 by the Soviet Union. These included the Soviet RSD-10 Pioneer (NATO reporting name SS-20 SABER, with a range of 600 to 5000 kilometers) with multiple independently targetable reentry vehicle (MIRV) missiles, as well as the single-warhead Pershing II systems.

    The Soviet short-range tactical missile system (NATO reporting SS-23 Spider, with a range of 500 kilometers), was also destroyed under the INF treaty. Recent Russian claims that the SS-23 " ... technically did not fall into the category of missile systems slated for scrapping, since the maximum range of its missile did not exceed 450 km (280 miles)" or that "Nonetheless, the Americans insisted that the Oka be included on the list of systems subject to elimination" are entirely without merit, having no basis in fact or history.

    The missile is superior to its predecessor, the Oka. The launch carrier vehicle carries two missiles, rather than one. And each missile can be independently targeted, in a matter of seconds. The missiles can be retargeted during flight not only against fixed targets, but also against moving targets, such as a tactical missile launcher, a tank column, or a convoy. The Iskander has another unique feature: the optically guided warhead can also be controlled by a coded radio signal, including from an AWACS or an unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV). This provides a self-homing capability. The missile's onboard computer receives an image or images of the target. Then the missile, by locking on the target with its sights, will travel towards it at supersonic speed.

    The system can be used against small and large targets. The Iskander missile can easily overcome air defense systems. It's almost impossible to prevent a launch of an Iskander missile because of the system's mobility. Targets can be found not only by satellite and aircraft but also by a conventional intelligence center and by a soldier who directs artillery fire. Targets can also be found from photos, which will be put into a computer by means of a scanner. The self-direction device functions even in fog or darkness. Only the Iskander system can accomplish such tasks.

    According to Nikolay Guschin, chief and senior designer of the Machinebuilding Design Office, the complex is meant for covertly preparing and launching effective missile strikes at small-size targets of particular importance. A specificity of this complex is the high level of automation in the pre-launch preparations little time required to make it ready, and the high precision of shooting.

    Research carried out by specialists from the leading Russian military science centers is claimed to have shown that the lskander-E missile complex is 5 to 8 times better than its foreign analogs in terms of the "effectiveness-cost" criterion. As for its tactical and technical characteristics, it also poses a great improvement on the existing Russian tactical missile complexes. Capable of accomplishing tasks connected with the use of non-nuclear warheads, it's the world's first complex equipped with two-missile launch installation. Weighing 3800 kilograms each, controlled throughout the trajectory of their flight, equipped with various systems of correction and self-targeting, its missiles are capable of overcoming the enemy's anti-missile defences and hitting targets at a distance of 280 kilometers.

    The TEL was likely based on the new BAZ-6909 family of trucks, first publicly displayed at a commercial transport show in Moscow in August 1995. Two missiles are carried on each launcher, though the delay between firing each round is unclear. The new TEL is apparently based on the the 9P71 Oka TEL, though the new SS-X-26 TEL has been designed with the INF Treaty in mind, with several external changes that clearly differentiate the two vehicles to prevent treaty compliance problems. The nose of the vehicle has been extended forward, the chassis lengthened, and the access door arrangement has been changes. The tactical parameters of the two vehicles are probably similar.

    The composition of the complex makes it possible to ensure the full cycle of its use in combat, including its combat control, information base, technical servicing and the training of its crews, without the involvement of additional remedies


    R-36M Voyevoda / SS-18 SATAN
    Russian President Dmitry Medvedev on 05 November 2008 cancelled the order to disband three regiments of the 28th Guards Missile Division of Russia's missile forces in Kozelsk, Kaluga Region. Steps to disband it began in 2007. It includes five missile regiments, or 46 silo launchers of RS-18 intercontinental ballistic missiles. [By one report, in 2003 some 30 RS-18 missiles were bought by Russia from Ukraine, where they were stored in a dismantled state. Now they can be considered as "new" and put on permanent duty until 2030.]

    The R-36m / SS-18 intercontinental ballistic missile was a large, two-stage, tandem, storable liquid-propellant inertial guided missile developed as a replacement to the base R-36 ICBM. The R-36M was a hardened silo housed, highly accurate 4th generation system, physically larger than the most modern US ICBMs deployed at the time. The US Minuteman silos (at 300 psi) were believed to be vulnerable to SS-18 systems. By 1975, analysts argued that few Minuteman could be expected to survive a Soviet attack. The vulnerability of U.S. land based strategic missiles systems to Soviet ICBMs became one of the major issues in U.S. strategic debates in the late 1970s and early 1980s.

    The R-36M (15A14) was a two-stage missile capable of carrying several different warheads. The basic design is similar to the original R-36 missile, the M was modified to include advanced technologies and more powerful engines. This missile, using dinitrogen tetroxide (N2O4) and heptyl (a UDMH [unsymmetrical dimethyl hydrazine] compound) has a first stage powered by a 460-ton-thrust motor with four combustion chambers, and the second by a single-chamber 77-ton-thrust motor. The first stage uses four closed-cycle single chambered rocket motors. The second stage was equipped with a closed-cycle single chambered sustainer motor and an open-cycle four chambered control motor with a built in sustainer in the toroidal cavity of the fuel tank. The flight control of the first stage was conducted through gimbaled sustainers that used asymmetrical dimethylhydrazine and nitrogen tetraoxide. The missile was equipped with an autonomous inertial command structure and an onboard digital computer.

    The R-36M used a gas-dynamic system for both the first and second stages that pressurized the propellant tanks through the opening of special ports. This obviated the need for the use of pressurized gases from tanks as well as chemical tank pressurization methods (injecting small amounts of fuel in the oxidizer tank and oxidizer into the fuel tank). These design improvements as well as more effective engines allowed an increase in the total liftoff weight from 183 tons to 209.6 ton and the throw weight from 5.8 tons to 8.8 tons, while preserving the overall dimensions of its predecessor missile.

    The SS-18 was deployed in modified SS-9 silos, and employed a cold-launch technique with the missile being ejected from the silo prior to main engine ignition. The rocket was placed in a fiberglass composite transport-launch canister, which was subsequently placed into an retrofitted R-36 silo. The special hardened silo was 39 meters deep and had a diameter of 5.9 meters. As previously stated, the missile was ejected from the container prior to main engine ignition. This was done through the help of a solid-propellant gas generator located in the lower unit of the transport-launch canister. According to Western estimates, the SS-18 was deployed in a silo with a hardness of at least 4,000 psi (281 kg/sq. cm; 287 bar), and possibly as high as 6,000 psi (422 kg/sq. cm; 430 bar).

    The development of the two stage heavy liquid-propellant ICBM R-36M intended to replace the R-36 SS-9 Scarp was accepted on 02 September 1969. The preliminary design was completed in December 1969 by the Yuzhnoye design bureau. The system was designed by the M. K. Yangel OKB Yuzhnoye at Dnepropetrovsk (Ukraine) during 1966-1972. Testing began in November 1972. It was deployed in January 1975 and integrated with the weapons arsenal in December 1975.

    As of 1992, 88 SS-18 missile launchers had been deployed in Russia, most of them at the Dombarovsky missile base in the Orenburg Region, in the southern Urals.

    As of 01 April 2005 Kommersant reported that the Strategic Missile Force of Russia had 496 ICBMs, including 226 silo-launched (86 heavy missiles R-36MUTTH and R-36M2 Voevoda, 10 medium missiles UR-100NUTTH, and 40 light missiles RS-12M2 Topol-M) and 270 mobile ground-launched missiles RS-12M Topol. By 2010, the Force may have no more than 313 ICBMs, including 154 silo-launched (40 R-36M2 Voevoda, 50 UR-100NUTTH, and 64 RS-12M2 Topol M), and 159 mobile ground-launched missiles (144 RS-12M Topol and 15 RS-12M1 Topol M). The number of warheads on the ICBMs will be reduced from 1,770 to 923. [upon close inspection these numbers don't exactly add up and are internally inconsistent, based on standard warhead loading assumptions]

    On 26 August 2005 Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov said said the Soviet-era Voyevoda heavy missiles (whose NATO reporting name is Satan) could remain in service for a long time. "What we launch today are missiles with an expired service life," Ivanov said. In this way, the Defense Ministry can check the condition of missiles with an expired service life and save large amount of money on their disposal," Ivanov said.

    Russia's Strategic Missile Forces conducted 21 December 2006 a successful test launch of a RS-20V Voyevoda (NATO codename SS-18 Satan) intercontinental ballistic missile. The launch was conducted to test the RS-20V's flight and technical characteristics to extend the service life of the R-36M2 missile systems from 19 to 20 years.

    The chief of the Russian General Staff on 20 February 2007 praised the RS-20 Voyevoda missile systems (NATO codename SS-18 Satan) and said the extension of their service life is linked to Russia's security. "Maintaining these intercontinental ballistic missiles on combat duty with guaranteed nuclear security makes it possible to retool the ground element of the strategic nuclear forces with new armaments with lower expenditure," Army General Yury Baluyevsky told government daily Rossiiskaya Gazeta.

    On 30 July 2007 Russia's Strategic Missile Forces said that the RS-20 Voyevoda (SS-18 Satan) intercontinental ballistic missile, adopted exactly 20 years earlier, will remain in service until 2014-16. A spokesman for the forces said the missile remains the most powerful ICBM in the world.

    On 12 February 2008 President Vladimir Putin ratified a Russian-Ukrainian agreement to extend the service life of RS-20 (SS-18 Satan) intercontinental ballistic missiles. The lower and upper houses of parliament passed the draft law on the missile on January 25 and January 30 respectively. The agreement was coordinated during a visit by the Ukrainian defense minister to Moscow in 2006 and established that Ukraine would assist Russia in maintaining systems that have been on combat duty for the past 15 years for a further 10-15 years. With this agreement in force, Russia will not need to decommission the existing missiles and manufacture more new Topol-M systems, which would increase the defense budget by $3-4 billion.

    Satan, which can carry 10 independently targeted nuclear charges, was designed at the Yuzhnoye Design Bureau in Dnepropetrovsk, in the south of central Ukraine. Under the 1992 Lisbon agreement between Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan and the United States, Ukraine may not produce such missiles or have other types of strategic weapons. The Dnepropetrovsk plant, where the Voevoda was made in Soviet times, now produces trolleybuses, but its missile designers still provide routine maintenance to and repair Satans, when and if necessary, under the agreement prolonged by the Russian parliament. Russia has only 75 such missiles now, but they form the core of its strategic deterrence force.

    Deployment Sites
    Locale US-Designation
    Aleysk in Altai (30)
    Derzhavinsk near Akmolinsk (52)
    Imeni Gastello
    Dombarovsky-3 near Orenbourg (64)
    Kartaly-6 near Chelyabinsk (46)
    Uzhur-4 near Krasnoyarsk (64)
    Zhangiz-Tobe near Seminpalatinsk (52)
    Zhangiz Tobe​
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2008
  2. glocknut

    glocknut Active Member

    The old Soviet Union had more things bogging it down... feeding its own people and financing countries like Cuba took alot of money. The current Russia is now a dictatorship which is probably not concerned with financing other countries or feeding its people. If Russia gets revived thru oil revenue coming from oil production it could be a very dangerous threat. They haven't been able to supply their army with great numbers of the things they have developed in the last few years but if they get a new money supply..... look out!

    Thats my opinion anyways...


  3. Russia has and have always had one goal, that is world domination and in order to have that they need nuclear weapons. They will never disarm, scale back, dismantle or anything else to diminish their nuclear power.

    Russia can not be trusted, this may seem a bit narrow minded by some, but i stand by that statement. Anyone who thinks that they can be, is only fooling themselves.

    I think General Patton had the right idea about Russia during WWII.

    To Whom Much Is Given, Much Is Required.
  4. ponycar17

    ponycar17 Active Member

    Feb 17, 2005
    South Carolina
    This is the threat I personally believe Biden was referring to in the first 6 months of Dumb-Bama's Presidency...

    I posted about Russia a while back and I believe they're sending a clear signal to us in Poland, the Black Sea and Venezuela... I really, really do worry about this and I pray there's no merit to the situation we may be getting ourselves into.
  5. Jim White

    Jim White New Member

    I was under the impression any new nuclear warhead/missile development was just more sabre-rattling, like in the 50s and 60s. I believe the superpowers aren't crazy enough to actually use them unless something happens "militarily" on a global scale. Smaller countries like North Korea, or (God forbid they get one >) Iran, however, could deploy their missiles skyward just because their leader is a bona fide "lunatic".

    The United States seriously needs to ramp up development on Anti-ICBM technology. We're doing great so far in the research and development of Anti-Missile Weapons.
  6. satellite66

    satellite66 New Member

    Oct 6, 2004
    Central NJ
  7. glocknut

    glocknut Active Member

    Holy Cats.... Obama is an even bigger fool that i had thought!:eek::eek::mad::mad:
  8. GMFWoodchuck

    GMFWoodchuck New Member

    Oct 9, 2008
    Binghamton, NY
    I did the best I could. I copied and pasted it and sent it to Mr. Obama himself.
  9. Marlin T

    Marlin T Well-Known Member

    Jul 8, 2005
    New Mexico
    That is quite the response Sat. I know that is an old video, but still it shows this mans intentions. He still might change his ignorant stance on disarmament and disbanding the military.

    We barely have any nukes left in Europe as it is now, so it wouldn’t take much to make that number zero. I still don’t understand why Bush pulled so many from that part of the world.

    Good job Woodchuck.
  10. SaddleSarge

    SaddleSarge New Member

    Aug 24, 2008
    Without a military, The Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 won't be an issue since it is being whittle away anyway. His civilian defense group will take take the military's stead.
  11. satellite66

    satellite66 New Member

    Oct 6, 2004
    Central NJ
    Here is something from Barney Frank. Since Obama does not stray to far from dem agenda this seems to be their desire.
    Barney cut military
  12. GMFWoodchuck

    GMFWoodchuck New Member

    Oct 9, 2008
    Binghamton, NY
    I do think that a part of this issue on Bush's part is that how many nukes do we really need. One Ohio class sub has the potential to carry 24 missiles. Each with the potential to carry eight 475 KT (the ones used in Japan were about 20-ish) warheads (per treaty, if I understand it right) with a fleet total of 1750 warheads. How many do we really need? This is only the the ballistic missile subs, forget everything else. I don't think that we really need more of these weapons but a much better defense system capable of defeating these types of weapons. Thus causing issues with the Russians. I say screw them. Invest in the technology.
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