When to use your weapon...

Discussion in 'Self Defense Tactics & Weapons' started by hogger129, Feb 21, 2010.

  1. CampingJosh

    CampingJosh Well-Known Member

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  2. Agentwil

    Agentwil New Member

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    I would recommend anything by Col Dave Grossman. His website is http://www.killology.com, his books, "On Combat" and "On Killing" are the best written on the subject. I don't recommend Massad Ayoob because he is a self proclaimed expert with no education or experience to back up his claims.
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2010
  3. CampingJosh

    CampingJosh Well-Known Member

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    I disagree with this. He has both education and experience, and his book explains both.
  4. Agentwil

    Agentwil New Member

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    We can agree to disagree.
  5. CampingJosh

    CampingJosh Well-Known Member

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    Fine with me. :) I tend to learn the most from people with whom I do not agree.
  6. ofitg

    ofitg New Member

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    I once heard a CCW instructor recount some of his personal experiences after he was compelled to use deadly force. He was completely justified in using deadly force, so there were no criminal charges, but he paid about $30k (this was back in the 1990's) in legal fees defending himself against civil suits initiated by the bad guy's family (not to mention the threats, vandalism and other forms of harrassment).
    It's not something you would want to go through. Deadly force is a last resort.... and then you could be in for the biggest hassle of your life.
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2010
  7. mncarpenter

    mncarpenter New Member

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    This question has been discussed,to death, pun intended,on many forums and in many formats. Defense training should help, your body and brain will tell you more. I've never been in a situation where I have felt another human was going to kill me,although I have been around people who were capable of it and may have wanted to. I have been in situations where I thought I was about to die,and probably should have, and for some unknown reason , come out still breathing. I will never forget the body reaction I've had, and amazingly , the clarity of thought. I think User has it right, and what he says has been the thinking I've based my own decision on. I won't threaten you with a gun. When it comes out I'm pulling the trigger. Here is why-my normal reaction to a threatening situation is not to pull a gun, but get the hell away,whether that means fighting, running, or a combination of both. If I can't get away, or fight off a threat, then I will do what it takes to stop it. I have screwed up knees from years of lugging beef, and standing/working on concrete as a carpenter, furniture/cabinet maker. I'm 6'2 270,and 53 yrs old. I can't run very fast or far. I could break your neck if I can get hold of you, but that's kinda iffy, cuz I ain't too fast. Hence the carry permit, because like others, I don't intend to be your victim, or allow an innocent person or a member of my family be a victim.
  8. wpage

    wpage Active Member

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    No CCW...
    However when its time. Its time and we know it...
  9. guns4life

    guns4life New Member

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    so if its daylight and a burglar is breaking into your house you must assume that he is only wanting your property and not your life so you cant protect yourself using deadly force YOU GOTTA BE KIDDIN ME !!!!!!!! thank God that south carolina has a castle doctrine which means that you have no duty to retreat in your own home if he breaks in in sc hes dead meat bought and paid for end of story
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2010
  10. CampingJosh

    CampingJosh Well-Known Member

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    User's point wasn't that you cannot protect yourself in your home in the daytime. His point was that when daylight allows, you must assess if the intruder is actually a threat to your life or only a threat to your jewelry box. If the intruder is armed, then by all means defend yourself and your family.

    Try not to think of it in terms of "I'm not allowed to kill intruders during the day." Instead, use this system: It is allowable to kill and intruder who is threatening serious bodily injury; at night, all intruders are assumed to be threatening serious bodily injury.
  11. JUNKKING

    JUNKKING Active Member

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    I tell my wife all the time if they want your purse give it to them if they try to harm you in the process let them have it. In the house let them steal whatever they want as soon as they come through the bedroom door let them have it if it is a home invasion shoot them as they bust the door down. Just this weekend here in Pittsburgh 2 men broke into a house both were shot one died, No charges filed but I bet the one who lived is thinking wow did I get lucky. I bet he doesnt break into another house again.
  12. Merick The Red

    Merick The Red New Member

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    Simply put, if you are trapped, unable to run, and in immediate physical danger you are justified. However, the aftermath of a shooting is not so cut and dry. Each state has their own definition of what circumstances justify the use of deadly force. You should do some homework on where you live so you can understand the rules. Remember, if you are ever involved in a shooting, even if you where justified, you will most likely go to court. After personally reading hundreds of different case reports about self defence shootings that have gone to trial, I realized that the vast majority of self defense shootings actually DO go to court, and a disturbing number of gun owners where found guilty of Premeditation and Negligence in addition to having to pay restitution. The sad thing is, most of these gun owners where deemed justified and All of them where out tens of thousands of dollars in unrecoverable legal expenses.

    In every case the gun owner was questioned about everything from the type of gun they carry, why they carry and why they use the kind of ammunition they had on them. In cases where they used hard-ball they were accused of being "reckless" and "negligent" for using ammunition known to over-penetrate. In cases where they used fancy self defense rounds (the kind you find on the Internet at $5 per bullet) they were accused of being excessive, and of having premeditated motives "looking for an excuse".

    However, the ones who carried cartridges similar to what law enforcement use didn't face the same level of scrutiny. Carrying anything larger with a .45 is just pointless, (unless you live in Alaska and have to look out for 1200lb rabid Kodiak grizzlies.)

    I would hate to be that guy on the stand trying to explain the need to carry a 50AE or a 10mm. Even if the shooting was clearly justified, It’s hard to look like the "Victim" when the Perpetrator's smoking remains have to be picked up with tweezers, a sponge and a dirt devil dust vacuum because you shot them center mass with a .50 cal P+P+P 500 grain uranium coated explosive thermite fragmentation shell fired from your gold plated Desert Eagle. An exaggeration I know, but you get the point.

    The point is, carrying excessive firepower, multiple spare mags, or firing an entire clip if you have to protect yourself makes it easier for an attorney to label you as "a gun toting extremist looking for an excuse to shoot someone".

    So educate yourself on your local laws so you can carry responsibly, get some advice from local law enforcement so you know what kind of load to use, and read a few case studies from your area so you understand the aftermath. This will give you a good rounded idea of whats considered "Justified" by your local justice system, and will help you avoid being drilled by a lawyer if you are ever in a shooting that goes to trial.
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2010
  13. Double D

    Double D Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Merick, I agree with alot of what you are saying. The part about if you are trapped and unable to run, well, not so much. I will do my best to "avoid" a situation but probably wont run from one even if I can. Also, I will take my chances with the load I am using. If I have to shoot someone (god forbid) I dont want that person to be wheeled in the courtroom in a wheelchair by his shark lawers for the judge to "have pity on him". By the way, I am a right wing extreemist and a bitter clinger.
  14. 45nut

    45nut Active Member

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    Not in TEXAS!! :D :D
  15. Old Grump

    Old Grump New Member

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    This a joke right? Nobody can be that silly.
  16. Agentwil

    Agentwil New Member

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    Remember the only one calling him an expert is himself. Massad Ayoob is a prostitute. I stand behind my comment.
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2010
  17. zfk55

    zfk55 New Member

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    Good grief.

    zfk55
  18. zfk55

    zfk55 New Member

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  19. Agentwil

    Agentwil New Member

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    Last edited: Apr 7, 2010
  20. zfk55

    zfk55 New Member

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    And you're an authority on this because...............
    If you're going to post this sort of crap about a reputable man on the open net you're going to have to prove it or shut up.
    So there are many thousands that know his true worth over a long career. And your credits are........... ? What? You're an authority on him because.........? Got anything to fill in the blanks other than off the wall conjecture and pointless opinions.

    zfk55
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