which bp rifle to buy?

Discussion in 'Black Powder Shooting / Muzzleloaders / Handguns' started by mauser_central, Jan 11, 2005.

?

Which black powder rifle should I buy?

  1. Thompson Omega

    16 vote(s)
    32.7%
  2. Knight Revolution

    9 vote(s)
    18.4%
  3. Winchester Apex

    2 vote(s)
    4.1%
  4. Other, please post and tell me which 1 you recommend

    22 vote(s)
    44.9%
  1. mauser_central

    mauser_central New Member

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    Well after missing out on bp season this year i've decided to buy a rifle now to use next season. I know very little about black powder rifles and would like your opinions. This will be a one shot purchase, meaning whatever i buy i will keep so i want a good , dependable easy to clean muzzle loader. I hear knights are great mainly because of those awesome green mountain barrels, thompson omega because of its ease to clean, and cva for price. i also like the looks of the winchesters but havent heard anything good or bad about them. So im going to put up a poll vote for the rifle you think i should get.

    by the way anyone hear anything about the knight revolution having bad blowback? a guy up the road has one and loves his says it dosent have blowback but ive read online they do???
  2. IShootBack

    IShootBack Well-Known Member

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    Omega is the only way to go, of these choices.
  3. MisterEd

    MisterEd Member

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    First thing you might want to do (however sounds like you may already have a handle on it) is to make sure what your state allows. A few years ago my own state of Oregon very abruptly (like right before BP season) made radical changes to the existing rules for equipment. The result was "traditional only" meaning exposed ignition (flint or traditional cap - no 209) open sights only, constructed of metal with no light gathering ability, patched RB or conical one piece lead bullet only and loose BP powder or BP substitute propellent, minimum .45 cal for deer and .50 for Elk with conical bullet only. Personally I did not have a problem with this as I have always shot with traditional equipment but I believe more states will be making changes similar to this in the future.
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2005
  4. jjmitchell60

    jjmitchell60 Active Member

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    MC, IMHO I would say buy a TC Encore, either the 209/45 or 209/50. I bought my FIRST inline this year to use in Ohio where modern rifles are forbidden. Where Ihunt a 200 yard shot is not uncommon. I bought the 209/45 in stainless with composite stock. Now I am a traditional BP shooter with 5 or 6 flinters and 15 to 20 side hammer percussions. Here inKY I use a flinter. One advantage to the Encore is the WIDE range of moden rifle and pistol calibers you can get to put on it. They will even makeit for you at the custom shop if it is not offered, I know because I am orderng a 225 Winchester barrel. I already have a 22-250 and a 300 Win Mag barrels. The down side is that the Encore will cost a good bit more than the ones you listed BIT well worth the extra money IMHO. I took a real nice 10 pointer with my Encore in Ohio and the rifle perfomed great.
  5. stevejc

    stevejc New Member

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    Have you checked out the Savage Model 10MLII ? This is a muzzleloader that can shoot either black powder or smokeless powder. I have one and it’s great! No rotten eggs sulfur smell; no clouds of smoke feel like cleaning it tomorrow go ahead and wait! It has an AccuTrigger, which allows the shooter to adjust the trigger pull from 2 1/2 lbs to 6 lbs. With smokeless powder you can get 2300 fps and 1” groups out of a muzzleloader Check it out at: www.savagearms.com

    Steve
  6. ryan_marine

    ryan_marine New Member

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    I have been reading about a smoke pole that has been shot in the 2800+fps range with a 300gr bullet. I thing that it was called BP Express. If I see it again in an artical I will post the mag and issue
  7. astute observer

    astute observer New Member

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    Personally, I much prefer tradional guns, either sidelock or underhammer. Yes, underhammers are traditional and will provide ignition every bit as good as an inline. But if you believe you must have an inline, I believe the Austin & Halleck is as good as they get.
  8. JohnK3

    JohnK3 New Member

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    Is it too late to change my vote? [grin]

    I know I voted for the Winchester, but that was before I'd started reading up on the Savage 110ML rifle. First, Savage pressure tests every barrel to over 10 times expected operating pressure, before it leaves the factory. Second, it's the only major commercially-produced muzzle-loader designed to use smokeless powder. Third, it has the Savage Accu-Trigger, which is a very fine trigger, indeed!

    I'm saving my pennies, now.
  9. astute observer

    astute observer New Member

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    I don't know about where you live, but a muzzle-loading firearm using smokeless powder would NOT be legal for hunting deer in Illinois. It is, by definition, no longer a black powder firearm.
  10. JohnK3

    JohnK3 New Member

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    You can shoot it using black powder substitutes, as well as smokeless powder. Therefore, if it is a concern, use some candy-propellant. (Triple-7, Clear Shot, American Pioneer, etc are variations on what rocketeers call "caramel candy propellant." Their base is sugar of one form or another.)

    I looked in the Georgia hunting regulations. A "Primitive weapon" is defined as a muzzle-loader, bow or crossbow. No mention is made as to its propellant.

    Now, as to Illinois, please observe what is on page 10 of the 2005-2006 Hunting Regulations for Illinois:

    That means that the Savage 110ML would be legal.
  11. LIKTOSHOOT

    LIKTOSHOOT Advanced Senior Member

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    I guess it`s just me, but to me it just isn`t BP hunting unless it is FL or side capped. I went full bore into BP from 1978 until around 1984 or so. Had a 54 Hawkin and a 58 of the same maker of which fails me now. Then late in that mix I purchased a Ruger 45 six shooter and also had had a Navy 36 to complement it. 36 was just fun, the Old Army Ruger was the best in handguns. Shot both cons and RB`s. Very-very accurate. The rifles were just the same by simply up or down loading with powder or bullet weight/style. I was never limited to 2fg powder either because after reading a book written by some big game African hunter who had taken the big ten with BP only.
    My best results came from 4fg in rifles and not the 2fg that most used.
    I just can`t see buying a bolt action looking rifle for BP.......just looks silly to me and there are some real quality side locks out there today.

    With all the speedloaders, powder pellets and the such, it still does not improve reliability or atleast any that I ever noticed. All the BP substitutes are just as dirty if not more so and as best as I can remember don`t give any better fps than quality BP matched load to load.

    We consistantly took deer and hogs at 100 yards with factory open sights and one max at 150. Now you have scopes-firesights and the such. Call me old fashion, but whats the point in going primitive and carrying a modern bolt action single shot shotgun primered scoped firesighted smoke pole.

    Now that said, can`t go for the flintlock.......but that might hook me too.
    I never once ever had a misfire, whether cold,wet,snow or anything else.


    Just call me really primitive......lol



    LTS
  12. JohnK3

    JohnK3 New Member

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    I got no problem with BP hunting being flintlock or side capped. The way the laws are written, however, it says "muzzleloading" not BP.

    The BP substitutes such as Triple Se7en, Clear Shot, American Pioneer, etc. are definitely a lot easier to clean. Usually takes about three spit patches to clean them out. Triple Se7en is the worst, however, as its gluconic acid-based forumation tends to leave a rock-candy ring near the breech plug.

    Pyrodex is nothing but BP with perchlorates instead of nitrates. Still has sulfur, still is a pain to clean up. It's dang hard to ignite, to boot.

    What I like most of all about muzzle-loader hunting is the careful aim I have to take, as it takes much longer, even with them fancy-pants pellets or sticks, to reload. Gotta make the first shot count, as you may not have time to make the second. Also, Georgia has made optics on muzzle-loaders illegal during primitive weapons season. This adds yet another twist to the game.

    The beauty is, LTS, both of us can enjoy what we like without any problems. You get to enjoy FL/Sidelock hunting and I get to enjoy the Savage (once I save the money to buy one, that is!)
  13. strayshot

    strayshot New Member

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    I'm no expert...just learning myself, but I did buy a MZ..a TC Encore to be exact. They are just a little more cashola than an Omega..but opens up many options with the other barrels available...just made too much sense to me.
  14. astute observer

    astute observer New Member

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    For those of you who think you need an inline with a black powder substitute in order to successfully hunt deer, or that "bigger is better", I thought I might show you this. This seven point buck was taken with one shot at 75 yards with this .45 caliber flintlock and a round ball. I used 75 grains of Goex FFFG to propel it. The rifle was built in 1976 by Jerry Marsh in Brookfield, Illinois. It has a Douglas barrel and Russ Hamm lock, neither of which is still on the market. This rifle had never been fired until I bought it four years ago. It responds like a centerfire and is very accurate.

    Attached Files:

  15. Icemanxxxv

    Icemanxxxv New Member

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    Lyman Great Plains Rifle. It's more Period Correct than any other Hawken or Germmer Demick Style Plains rifle.... Nothing like doing it the traditional way!
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