which caliber for all around use?

Discussion in 'Large-Bore/Small-Bore Rifle/Shotgun' started by hunter29180, Sep 26, 2012.

  1. hunter29180

    hunter29180 Well-Known Member

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    Hey what happened to the 45lc? it is better than the 357 mag! I love the 357 dont get me wrong but the 45 lc just plain out does the 357 all day long!:eek:
  2. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    well that depends on what youre comparing hunter..

    Modern .45 colt loaded to ruger pressures then hell yes it out performs the .357. but original .45 colt compared to .357 mag doesnt hold a candle to the performance of the .357 mag. Comparing modern .45 colt to .357 mag is like comparing .44 mag to .357 mag.

    .45 acp is ballistically equal to the .45 colt (230 gr at 850 VS 255 gr at 800) and chambered in a way cooler gun (1911:cool:) revolver wise. id take the .45 colt in a S&W 625 or a moutain gun. Killing power wise you neednt much more than a 255 gr slug at 800 fps. and if you do you have 6 shots.
  3. aa1911

    aa1911 Active Member

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    yeah, old .45 LC is like throwing a rock, with the newer high pressure capability, it's a freakin' cannon.

    .357 punches like no other! 125gn moving at 1900 fps is hard to argue with for a medium handgun cartridge.
  4. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    and recoil is less.
  5. hunter29180

    hunter29180 Well-Known Member

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    JLA, when you say the 45apc is ballistically equal to the .45 colt (230 gr at 850 VS 255 gr at 800), you are of course comparing to a cowboy load! The most common factory loads for the .45 Colt give a 225 grain lead HP bullet a muzzle velocity of 960 fps and an energy of 460 ft. lbs. Or a 250-255 grain lead bullet a MV of 860 fps and a ME of 410 ft. lbs http://www.chuckhawks.com/45Colt.htm

    lets pleasecompare apples to apples ..ok? and even though the 357 does have a highrt muzzel vel, it is using a much lighter bullet weight... which would you think is more painful and damaging to be hit by..a 1 lb hammer at 100 fps (357) or a 6 lb hammer at 70fps? (45lc)

    the 6 lb even being slower will do much more damage and over a wider area than the 1 lb hammer! thei shows up even better in balistic gel! thats why the military went with the 45apc over the 357..damage pure and simple! heavy and slow creats more damage than fast and light!
  6. aa1911

    aa1911 Active Member

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    no one's knocking the .45 LC, just talking about a best all-round cartrige; .45 LC is a strong contender in certain cases but all around the .357 has (always been) a powerhouse. And numbers don't always tell the true story when it comes to true performance. I've loaded plenty of .45 ACP that easily reach 960fps with 230gn bullets and have loaded plenty of .45 LC's with 250gns moving at a mere 700 fps. 20 gns is not a huge difference for one, a couple hundred fps is not either especially in the same caliber.

    but looking at the terminal performance of a cartridge half the size and causing much more damage in many cases can elevate a round's potential. a .45 LC loaded hot and heavy in the right gun will certainly outdo a .357. But ALL .357's meet a certain level that frequently exceeds the old .45 LC.

    The .500 S&W is much more powerful than the .357 but it's not as practical. that's the whole argument here I think when trying to choose a 'best' round.

    course, choosing a 'best' round usually sparks plenty of debate which is always good too! let's hear the best and worst of 'em all....
  7. aa1911

    aa1911 Active Member

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    and not to be a putz, but the military chose the .45 long before the .357 ever showed itself. and the military also dumped the .45 for the 9mm, half the weight, twice the velocity (and not happy about it myself). just sayin....
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2012
  8. soundguy

    soundguy Well-Known Member

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    considering a 357 is in the same frame size pattern as a '38' vs a larger frame size of a 45lc i think it may be easier to carry a 357.. less materials used in the ammo as well.

    i have no dislike for either... just saying...
  9. hunter29180

    hunter29180 Well-Known Member

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    its fun talking about this stuff!! we all get to learn so much!!

    the military went to the 45apc to gain extra capacity and needed to move to a semi- auto platform.

    then NATO steped in and forced the military to rethink, NATO felt the 45 caused too much of a wound, causing too many "crippling" and unhumanitiarn injuries. there by being "cruel and unjust"!

    agreeded, but consiter this..IF treeded by a hog or bear..heck even a mean bull..having dropped your rifle to enable you to more quickly clime said tree...which gun woud you rather have?? remember you may only be able to get a straight on head shot!!

    A 357 may penetrate the hog head, but may take 3-4 shots before finally penetrating the skull. the bear and the bull?? not likely. I know about the bull cause I got treeded once. back then I carried a 357 mag revolver..all I did was make that bull madder!! found out later the local slaughter house used a 45 lc to put down the bulls that they couldnt get to enter the chutes. usually 1 shot did the trick..you know if a bull is after you he ALWAYS keeps his heat facing you?? ALWAYS!

    the 45 either in 45lc or apc 1 to 2 shots on the hog, 3 possibly on the bear, 4 maybe on the bull..but each shot would really ring their bells and may cause then to decide its not a good idea to continue the pursuit...

    and please remember I didnt question the 45 apc in the PISTOL just the 357 in the revolver..I think I will willingly cary the extra 8-12 0z in weight for the extra power the 45 lc gives me. course I love revolvers beyond compare (just love the old west type SSA and the western holsters!!) but wouldnt turn down a semi in 45 either!
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2012
  10. hunter29180

    hunter29180 Well-Known Member

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    Heck..I helped Hijack my own thread!! we started discussing rifles and now are discussing backup side arms to go with those rifles!!

    I just LOVE these discussions!!!
  11. soundguy

    soundguy Well-Known Member

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    i have cattle, so understand the 'bull' problem. I've had to make a mad dash for a fence, throw myself over it and land in a sticker bush before, when forgetting what corral i was crossing thru :)

    as for which to take hunting around bear, boar or bull? a 45lc or a 357mag? minimum I'd carry is 44mag. i'm not really a wheelgun guy.. but I must say.. i like my anaconda. I have a 500mag as well.. but it's huge.. like carrying another rifle almost..
  12. aa1911

    aa1911 Active Member

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    ^^too funny Hunter! seems like everyone agrees on the shotgun though? that's one that usually doesn't stir up much debate as there's not many choices.

    if we started a thread with best 12g rounds though, holy crap we could insite a riot...

    But handgun or rifle caliber, loooooook out! sparks may fly!

    I've got my favorites, everyone does. just good to see/hear people's choices and more importantly why.

    so for rifle, it's a strong .308 for me still!
  13. aa1911

    aa1911 Active Member

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    I'm considering upgrading to a .41 mag for bear/elk seasons, my .357 will do quite a bit but some extra oomph would be handy. The .44 is just a bit much as far as size/weight goes as my second backup as I carry an autoloader for my primary sidearm.

    just sucks that the .41 never got popular, it's a great in between round.

    my little ruger SP101 .357 is one hell of a powerhouse for a tiny gun though!
  14. soundguy

    soundguy Well-Known Member

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    speaking of autoloader... for hunting backup.

    last hog hunt i went on, i was gonna carry my 44mag.. but a buddy went with me and had no backup gun save a bersa thunder... i didn't have my 500mag then either.. so i let him carry my anaconda and i took a autoloader in 50AE
  15. aa1911

    aa1911 Active Member

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    I know Jerry Miculek might disagree with me here but I prefer an autoloader for my primary sidearm due to the ability to sling mass quantities of lead. Either my 1911 or Glock.

    With the glock, I have 15-17 rounds in the gun and I carry a couple 22 round mags on my hunting vest plus some extra 15 rounders in my pack. 1911 I just have my 8 rounders, carry about 8 of them or so.

    revolver just can't keep up with that! I know the first thing to argue against that is caliber and shot placement but the same applies even if you have high volume. But I don't shoot things once (with a few exceptions for hunting game), I empty the gun to be sure!

    but a wheel gun doesn't jam so I have a small one for a backup normally.

    dang it, off on another tangent....
  16. hunter29180

    hunter29180 Well-Known Member

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    WHOA! while a 12 is a great shotgun....please dont underestimate the .410! its a very viable in house SD weapon without the muzzel flash, recoil and over penetration of a 12!! and it has as many flavors as the 12..single shot, dbl bbl, semi auto with mags up to 25! and dont forget the tarus Judge with 5 (some 6 I see!) as fast as you can pull the trigger!!

    Ok! we see you perfer the "GANGSTA" method of spray and pray! some odd reason the military and My father both aggreded on this one! make each shot count! 1 shot that you took a extra second to make sure of means more than 20 that punch air all around the target! a revolver just reinforces that lesson..besides its a lot harder for it to jam on a followup shot!:eek:
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2012
  17. aa1911

    aa1911 Active Member

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    no, wasn't saying spray and pray at all just because of more bullets; but instead of one well aimed shot, I prefer 20 well aimed shots, hahaa! I make each one count but as quick as I can. When someone or something is trying to take my life, I leave not a shred of doubt that the SOB is DRT! dead right there

    A full magazine to the nugget erases any doubt that it's still alive.

    .410 is a good round but the 12 has more options especially for buckshot and combo loads. I love my little .410 on the skeet range, bird hunting, even slinging OOO buck at coyotes.

    you can load your 12 down to a 24gram international load but ya can't load a .410 up to 12g loads. so all around with all things considered, I think the 12g is king.
  18. aa1911

    aa1911 Active Member

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    Gansta!! hahaha

    [​IMG]
  19. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    But your arent comparing apples to apples Hunter. your comapring .45 LC to .357 magnum. Yes the .357 has higher MV and less bullet mass, but it also has Extreme cavitation upon impact due to the higher MV. something the .45 colt doesnt have. That in itself make the effectiveness of the .357 more than the .45 colt. I love the .45 colt it is one of my fav rounds. i love the .357 equally. Go ahead and run the .45 colt with a 225 grain bullet at 960 fps. it still doens thave the cavitation upon impact a .357 158 gr at 1250 is going to have. and the .357 will have over 100 ft. lb of ME more to boot.
  20. hunter29180

    hunter29180 Well-Known Member

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    for you maybe it is..but thought we were talking SD in a house..least I was..then while the 12 does have a better range and a bigger pattern and will go through several walls as well...the .410 has a shorter range a smaller pattern and wont go through the walls as easy. but WAIT what are the common SD ranges in a house at night? 40 yds? big house there FELLA! na think its more like say 15 FEET 20 max? usually in a hallway? with your kids behind that wall...yep think I will stick with my .410! go go ahead with your cannon of a 12 and take out the walls on both sides of the hall..as well as 1/2 of the rooms to each side....yep!


    have to agree with most all you stated! I love the 357 too! its a great weapon, especally for 2 legged critters! but it is just to easily deflected by dense bone. the greater mass of the 45 as stated just "ploughs" through and breaks the bone usually without much deflection to a vital organ. and since I already tried to kill a herford bull with one and it just couldnt get her done...and I have witnessed the same size bulls being put down with factory (NOT COWBOY LOADS) 45lc. I think whenever I hunt in the woods where a feral hog, or bear, heck even another proddy bull may be encountered, I will stick with at least a 45 pistol or revolver!
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