1. Get Gear'd Up! Enter to WIN $1000 in gear!

    Please Click Here for full details and to enter. You will need to be registered and logged in to view the details and to participate.

    Thanks and good luck to everyone

Which is the more effective round?

Discussion in 'The Ammo & Reloading Forum' started by Doug.38PR, Nov 11, 2008.

?

Which is the better police round?

  1. Remington .38 Special+P LSWCHP (FBI Load)

    4 vote(s)
    12.5%
  2. Winchster Ranger/Federal Tactical 40

    13 vote(s)
    40.6%
  3. Winchster Ranger/Federal Tactical 9mm+P+

    2 vote(s)
    6.3%
  4. Winchster Ranger/Federal Tactical .357 Sig

    13 vote(s)
    40.6%
  1. Doug.38PR

    Doug.38PR Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2008
    Messages:
    328
    Location:
    North Louisiana
    Remington .38 Special+P Lead Semi Wadcutter Hollowpoint (aka FBI Load)
    Winchester Ranger/Federal Tactical .40
    Winchester Ranger/Federal Tactical 9mm+P+
    Winchester Ranger/Federal Tactical .357 Sig

    Just looking for an idea or set of opinons on which is the better police round. I recently read an article by, if I remember right, a reputable firearms writer which stated of the old .38 Special +P: "When police went to semi autos they got more bullets, not better bullets" as the old .38 Spl.+P LHP was a "proven street performer" which had the effect of a ".45 hardball"

    Statistics? Opinions? Votes?

    I have not tried the .40 or the .357 Sig. BUT, I have tried both the Federal Tactical 9mm+P+ 124 gr Hydrashok and 9mm 147 gr Hydrashok into the sand pile both directly and through objects (sheetrock, hardiboard, wood etc.)...the former expanded somewhat...but very little on one side. The latter almost never expanded and just kinda drilled into the sand.
    Before shooting the nine, I fired the old .38 Spl.+P LSWCHP into the sand and through objects. It expanded PERFECTLY and mushroomed everytime I would shoot it into the sand. It would expand everytime in some way when shooting it through objects even if it wasn't entirely perfect (it would still penetrate and ruin someones day)
    Based on this...I go for old school

    Here are some pictures of my results

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    The front is .38 Spl. The first one on the far left is one fired directly into the sand, the rest went through something(s) before going into the sand

    The back is Hydrashok 9mm. The left side seperated by the old laundry tag is 124 gr +P+ and the right side is 147 gr.
    In almost every case, the 9m+P+ in order to expand to any degree had to go through a hard object. If fired into sand, it didn't do much.
    The 147 gr performed pitifully in each case always either caving in on itself or scooping sheetrock, hardiboard concrete or wood and drilling into the sand.
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2008
  2. oscarmayer

    oscarmayer New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2008
    Messages:
    2,382
    numbers do not lie. go to wwwmouseguns.com and check out some interesting facts about ammo and ballistics. the 147 gr 9mm was a solution to a to a problem that didn't exsist. the 115 gr jhp from corbon was performing 95% one shot stops. any way it's all opinions but the 357 sig is a great round and far outclasses any 38 or 9mm load.
  3. CTM

    CTM New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2008
    Messages:
    85
    Location:
    middle tennessee
    357 sig hands down
  4. doug66

    doug66 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2005
    Messages:
    538
    Location:
    Kansas
    The one that hits its target.

    The loads listed are all effective.
  5. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2007
    Messages:
    18,271
    Location:
    Heart Of Texas
    the .357 sig is as effective as a .357 mag. except with the sig you get more shots...
  6. Doug.38PR

    Doug.38PR Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2008
    Messages:
    328
    Location:
    North Louisiana
    ^
    Well, on a light .357 load. (125 gr)...but a 158-180 gr is quite a different story.

    Still, even if it is a .357 magnum. There is a school of thought out there that belives slower moving is actually better in some cases than a round that just speeds on through you. (Not that I necessarily agree with it entirely)
  7. JohndeFresno

    JohndeFresno New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2008
    Messages:
    4
    The .40 SW has proven itself with many police agencies, and now in many shooting situations, to be an effective fight stopper, close to that of the powerful .45; but it is easier on the average shooter, at least by popular vote, and so it appears to be one of the most effective rounds for "true" battlefield accuracy in a real life scenario coupled with a respectable diameter and weight.

    Then along comes the .357 SIG - much louder on the ears, more problematic to load with its shouldered round, and so on. But since it approaches the .357 magnum, by almost all observations it is the most effective fight stopper in the list you have named. Note that Sky Marshals and other undercover police who frequently practice with their pistol have carried this round in various assignments. It is more expensive, not as easy to reload, and perhaps a little harder to master; but I believe that you will find that it is by far the most superior police round of the bunch.
  8. Doug.38PR

    Doug.38PR Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2008
    Messages:
    328
    Location:
    North Louisiana
    Wow, I didn't know the .357 Sig had such a large following among modern policemen. I would have thought most policemen would be clicking on 40 S&W. I know the Texas DPS State Troopers carry the .357 Sig, but Houston Police requires .40 S&W and I know several policemen outside of Houston that prefer the .40 caliber.

    It does kind of surprise me that the 40 S&W and .357 Sig have such a difference in how loud the discharge is. I mean, the .357 Sig cartridge is essentially a .40 S&W cartridge designed to accept a 9mm round. Same amount of powder right? Just slower moving on the .40 S&W.
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2008
  9. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2007
    Messages:
    18,271
    Location:
    Heart Of Texas

    Not exactly Doug, Just like comparing straight walled rifle cartridges to bottleneck rifle cartridges. The reduced neck causes a restriction, which increases turbulence within the case, which increases pressure, peaking the pressure curve for a longer period of time which results in higher velocities and a louder report. perhaps the best test for this explanation is to fire both, a standard .40 s&w cartridge with a bullet weight the same as a standard .357 sig cartridge. I will guarantee you the .357 sig will be louder and faster.
  10. Doug.38PR

    Doug.38PR Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2008
    Messages:
    328
    Location:
    North Louisiana
    ^
    Unfortunately, I don't own either of the two....yet. If I ever get another Sig226, it will be a .357 Sig. I have a two friends who have .40 S&W guns


    I noticed somebody else selected the .38 FBI load. Like to hear their comment as well as the person who selected 9mm+P+
  11. Night Driver

    Night Driver New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2008
    Messages:
    51
    Location:
    TEXAS, LAKE LIVINGSTON AREA
    The FBI did intensive testing of various calibers and cartridges after the tragic gunfight in Florida sometime in the 80's I believe. They tested for penetration thru windshield glass, typical automobile sheet metal and ballistic jelly, wallboard and who knows what else.

    The result was the issueing of the 10mm cartridge in the Colt Delta Elite. Unfortunately few agents could shoot the the thing very well because of the recoil and muzzle blast. As a compromise they down loaded theround making it on parr with the 45 long Colt, 45 ACP and the 40 AE. Basically there contention was just about any caliber was OK. As long as it started with a 4
  12. TranterUK

    TranterUK Guest

    My choice for the most effective of those given would be the .40.

    I realise it is not the most powerful but I would regard it as the most effective. For example by allowing quick follow up shots by being 'mild mannered' and controllable, more so than the Sig.
  13. Doug.38PR

    Doug.38PR Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2008
    Messages:
    328
    Location:
    North Louisiana
    I'm kinda surprised the 9mm+P+ isn't getting any more votes than it has as it's one of the most common, if not THE most common police rounds out there (save a lot of big city police departments and state police that have all gone to .40 S&W or .357 Sig)
    Personally, as said, I prefer the .38 Spl. +P LSWCHP 158 gr. It has been the most impressive in the sandpile. When I get the chance, I'll have a friend of mine try his Glock 40 in the sand to see what it does. My electrician has a S&W M&P .357 Sig. I'll see if he can't try it out next time he comes by.

    Interesting. two more people besides myself have also chosen the .38 Spl.
  14. oscarmayer

    oscarmayer New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2008
    Messages:
    2,382
    in everything i've read on various rounds i do know this the 158 gr 38 even in +P loadings isn't close to a 9mm +p . they have been tested to death over the years. now as for the 40 s&w and the 357 sig. check the facts the 357 has vastly more ft lbs of engery a 125gr 357 sig can be had in a 500 ft lb loading near equal to a 125 gr 357 mag load. the 40 is close but doesnt match the 357. check the info on www.mouseguns.com tons of information and facts concerning different ammo which is best and why ......
  15. Doug.38PR

    Doug.38PR Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2008
    Messages:
    328
    Location:
    North Louisiana

    Close in what? Velocity? Well a 9mm 115 grain even standard will outrun a .38 158 gr+P. This is understandable as the .38 is typically a heavier bullet. But penetration and expansion is what you are shooting for. Bullet weight carrys a lot of....well weight in regard to penetration.


    In regard to the M-19s shaking apart question from too many light .357s, I've always said, "Why use a light 125 gr round that is going to do more damage to your gun, and less damage to the bad guy when you can use a 158 gr round that will do less damage to your gun and more damage to the bad guy"

    I'd wonder if you'd care to elaborate on this statement..
    The other day, I unleashed a full magazine of 15 of these into the sandpile. I only had a few minutes to dig (and the sand was icy cold) and the ones I found didn't expand worht a flip, in fact most of them caved in on themselves. I'll dig later for the rest, but I imagine the results will be the same
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2008
Similar Threads
Forum Title Date
The Ammo & Reloading Forum More experimentation needed. Jun 10, 2014
The Ammo & Reloading Forum Need more 30-06 brass-found $exp way to get it May 23, 2014
The Ammo & Reloading Forum Got a chance to shoot more .380 reloads - one FTF May 21, 2014
The Ammo & Reloading Forum How can one powder be more accurate than another? Feb 20, 2014
The Ammo & Reloading Forum Been Thinking Of Loading The Scarce And More Expensive 380 Feb 2, 2014

Share This Page