Which Matches are in Eric England's Aggregate?

Discussion in 'Competition Shooting Forum' started by Brian Albin, Sep 1, 2012.

  1. Brian Albin

    Brian Albin New Member

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    I have heard that Eric England USMC, is the undefeated U.S. rifle champion since 1968, with a score of 0.998
    I have been trying to learn what this means, but am not finding the right web site.
    Can someone tell me what matches he shot in to compile this score?
  2. Old Grump

    Old Grump New Member

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    New York long range match 1968 got 998 points and 45 X out of a possible 1000 points and 100 X at 1000 yards with iron sights.
  3. Brian Albin

    Brian Albin New Member

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    Thank you, Grumpy.
    I wish I were a better shot.
  4. Old Grump

    Old Grump New Member

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    Trigger time, a good coach, patience and hardwork will make us all better. England had a good coach but he was also one of those naturals who become great shots early on. I taught a young specialist at White Sands and he did in 6 months what it took me 10 years to do with a rifle. I shot alongside of David Tubbs when he was a young teen and I will guarantee he had a butt kicking take no prisoners good coach in his dad. He had the talent, did the hard work listened and apparently it worked, he seems to have won a couple of big matches and now he is all grown up and teaching others to do what he does.
  5. Brian Albin

    Brian Albin New Member

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    That sounds right.
    Is the New York match shot anymore?
  6. Old Grump

    Old Grump New Member

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    Google Forbes rifle and pistol club, they have a 1000 yard range and google Palma match, interesting history.
  7. Brian Albin

    Brian Albin New Member

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    Yes I recently read a history of the Palma match here http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2011/10/history-history-of-palma-match-2011.html
    Very interesting. I had heard of that first British against Americans match many times through the years, and had heard the name Palma match, and never knew the two went together.

    I have a book written by Arthur Gould in the 1890s in which he says that during the days of black powder cartridge rifles, paper target shooting was divided into short, medium and long range. Short was 200 & 300 yds with an 8 inch bullseye, and was always shot offhand. Mid range was 500 & 600 yds with first a two foot square bull which was soon replaced by a round one of 22 inches and a fraction. I have forgotten how much the fraction was. 500 yds was usually shot sitting or kneeling at State and Regional matches, but was always shot standing up at the Nationals!
    I find that fascinating. I would like to get a 19th century style offhand rifle and try some 500 yd offhand on a two foot bullseye.
    Mr Gould said 600 yds was shot sitting or kneeling everywhere; and Long range was shot lying down, either prone or supine. Long range was 800, 900 & 1000 yds on the 3 ft bull. That would be the Palma.

    This was all the shooting for the civilians, but he said the Army did some longer shooting, but I don't know the ranges.
  8. Old Grump

    Old Grump New Member

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    And then go to any range on a nice day and look at all these guys with modern centerfire rifles and $300 scopes shooting 25 to 100 yards from a bench rest and patting themselves on the back if they hit paper. :D
  9. Brian Albin

    Brian Albin New Member

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    Ha Ha!
    I really need to start shooting better before I laugh at others, but, Bench resting has always seemed an abomination to me. I like the true positions.

    There is an interesting interview with barrel maker Harry Pope http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2009/08/history-harry-pope.html where he says: "Both I and Doctor Hudson have shot offhand at 1,000 yards with occasional fours and fives. I once scored 48 at 500 offhand under poor conditions. It could be done. I'm sure that if I had tackled that in the old days, a long run at 1,000 would not have been impossible.”

    “Long run” I take to mean a string of consecutive bullseyes. I really need to get out and practice more.
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