Whoops

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by pinecone70, Feb 23, 2009.

  1. pinecone70

    pinecone70 Active Member

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    This just came to my attention, but may have been on the television news (I don't watch). I like the way this incident was written up, which is why I wanted to share it, it's not anti-gun, surprisingly. I do like how the police department spokesman said "safety switch". LOL!

    Freak shot wounds retired St. Paul cop at Minneapolis gun show
    Second officer's holster apparently caught on his chair
    By Nick Ferraro
    nferraro@pioneerpress.com
    Updated: 02/22/2009 10:49:30 PM CST

    A retired St. Paul police officer was wounded Saturday when a pistol belonging to an off-duty Minneapolis police officer accidentally discharged at a gun show.

    Both men were working security at the Minneapolis Gun Show at the Minneapolis Convention Center when the accident happened about 1:15 p.m., said Minneapolis police spokesman Sgt. Jesse Garcia.

    The semi-automatic pistol went off when the off-duty officer's holster got caught on a chair when he was either leaning back or getting up, Garcia said.

    One bullet hit the floor, and fragmented pieces struck the 61-year-old retired officer in a leg and hand, Garcia said. He was treated for a small wound and released Saturday.

    A bullet fragment also grazed the Minneapolis police officer's pant leg. The officer, who has been on the force for more than 20 years, was not injured.

    Garcia called the incident a "freak accident."

    "You could probably sit in the chair 10,000 times and it will never happen again," he said.

    The retired officer was working for a private security firm hired by the gun show, while the off-duty, uniformed Minneapolis officer was hired by the convention center, Garcia said. Both men were near a check-in table that was set up to make sure guns were inoperable, he said.

    Their names were not available Sunday.

    Minneapolis police will perform an internal investigation, which will include an examination of the gun and holster, Garcia said. But because the incident was an accident, the department will not consider any discipline, he added.

    Minneapolis officers keep the safety switch off when carrying guns in a holster, Garcia said.

    "When you need it, you need it," he said. "Every split second counts."

    Most people inside the convention center were unaware of the incident, Garcia said.

    "There was a cheerleader show and a dog show going on there, too, and it was business as usual," he said. "I'm sure 90 percent of those there didn't even know it happened."
  2. cycloneman

    cycloneman Well-Known Member

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    This is strange. I would like to know what kind of gun and holster he was using, wish i had more details
  3. pinecone70

    pinecone70 Active Member

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    I was thinking that too, there is usually a mention of gun type at least, and holster details could have been brought up just for the heck of it. Reporters don't know much about guns and wouldn't think to ask, possibly.

    It's one in a million.
  4. Enfield

    Enfield New Member

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    Interesting.....that brings up a question, as I have never used or carried a gun for protection, would you agree with leaving the safety off or do the people who carry generally have the safety on - does it take that long to flick from safe to fire

    What are your thoughts, just interested

    Cheers

    Enfield
  5. artabr

    artabr New Member

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    Somebody had their finger where it didn't belong. When was the last time you saw a cop with a holster that had an exposed trigger ?
    Just saying. ;) :)


    Art
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2009
  6. SaddleSarge

    SaddleSarge New Member

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    But the media did!:rolleyes: Something is amiss but, there are some holsters still out there with exposed triggers. I still have my first one from the late 80's with an exposed trigger...don't carry it....but I have it. ;)

    Not sticking up for them at all, but some departments don't purchase anything for their officers. Some guys continue to get by with what they carried 20 years ago which is, coincidentally, how long the one had been on. However, they were not on duty.

    It shouldn't have happened, but they are held to a higher standard because they are law enforcement.

    As for leaving the safety off, when I carried a 4506 S&W for many years, I never carried it in the hammer block (safety on) position, nor trained that way. The safety is your finger, training, and decision making skills. Some guys carry with the decocker/hammer block engaged. I teach my crew to carry and train what is comfortable, prefer a decocked (if double/single action) but not hammer blocked, but if you don't put your finger on the trigger it will NOT fire unless a catastrophic mechanical failure occurs. Then and only then is it an "accidental discharge." All others are unintended discharges.
  7. carver

    carver Moderator

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    Enfield, there are four types of handguns that most of us carry. The revolver, that has no safety. Just pull the trigger for each shot. It can be fired single action, SA, cock the hammer, pull the triger, or double action, DA, pull the trigger for each shot. The single action type pistol, such as the old .45, which is usually carried cocked and locked, hammer cocked, round in the chamber, safety engaged. Drop the safety and fire, all shots are fired single action. This is called Condition 1. The double action/single action type pistols that allow one to carry with either the hammer down, safety off, one rd. chambered. Condition 2. The first shot is double action, cocking the hammer as the trigger is pulled, with all subsequent shots fired as single action, or it can be carried cocked and locked like the single action pistol. The fourth type of pistol is the dubble action only, like the Glock. Like the revolver, you just pull the trigger for each shot, cocking the hammer as you pull the trigger.
  8. graehaven

    graehaven Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, something is fishy about the incident. It shouldn't have happened with the proper holster, and proper carry protocol.

    I carry DA only semi-auto pistols, with no safeties, and one round chambered, in holsters that cover the trigger.
  9. Enfield

    Enfield New Member

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    Thanks for the explaination

    Cheers

    Enfield
  10. 1shot1k

    1shot1k Former Guest

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    Accidental discharges used to be third most comon gunshot injury for officers, with Domestic/robbery respond 1st, traffic stop 2nd....dont know now...
    but do know was big push on getting "double action triggers into the field...like the Sigma I just got (fixed the trigger)....office/lockerroom discharge rate would be surprising if all were reported instead of the fraction that are outside witnessed or injury caused........
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