Why Do We Carry Conceald?

Discussion in 'Self Defense Tactics & Weapons' started by Rhuga, Oct 26, 2011.

  1. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

    Feb 3, 2007
    NW Florida
    I see the "if you open carry, the bad guy will shoot you first" argument pushed all the time. Several thoughts come to me whenever I see that.

    If this is true, whenever a criminal walks into a store, with the intention of robbing it, and there is a uniformed police officer there, he first shoots the cop, transforming a simple "armed robbery - 5 to 10" into a "1st degree murder - ride the lightning".

    I realize that this is fiction, but it makes a good point. TV movie, many years ago. Because his wife was killed in a robbery that he thought he could have prevented if he had been armed, a local politician pushes through a bill making it legal to carry a gun in his town. When two out-of-towners stop to rob the local convenience store, they see the clerk has an N-frame S.O.B., the guy at the magazine rack is wearing a single action in a buscadero rig, the mother pushing the baby carriage has a J frame on her waist and the guy at the cold-drink cooler has a double shoulder rig with 1911s. The two robbers turn and leave without trying anything.

    Then there is the thought that if I go in to rob the store, and see an armed man, and shoot him, but my aim is not perfect, and I either just wound him or miss him entirely, he is liable to shoot me. I would probably go pick another store to rob. I'm going into that store to get money, not to get into a life-or-death firefight.
  2. Chinook

    Chinook New Member

    Agreed! Great points you guys!

    I sincerely believe that regardless of how "hardened" a criminal is, they would still have to be scared sh**less walking in to the 7-11 you are about to hold-up. Perhaps not, but I would venture a guess and say that the mind of said criminal is not too tactically inclined. If he knew I was armed, thats a dis-advantage for me. So I try to keep a couple of those 50+ cards stacked in my favor. Seems fruitless, but I think any advantage, regardless of how miniscule, is better than none at all.

  3. carver

    carver Moderator Supporting Member

    That's the way I see it also. Though, here in TX you don't have a choice of open carry at all. There is a chance that if the BG gets the drop on you, and wants your wallet, that he will leave once he has it. That's a win-win for a bad situation. I don't get shot, and neither does the BG. I might be out $50, but I don't have to pay any attorney fees, that will surely cost me a whole lot more!
  4. Rhuga

    Rhuga Member

    Oct 25, 2011
    Henderson, Nevada
    There has been some very good points made. Lets think about this: In Nature, The predators will more often go after the weak, slow, and defenseless creatures to pray on. If Bambi could shoot back, there wouldn't be anymore deer hunts. There would be a mass extermination. Open carry would not show that you were either weak, slow, or defenseless and the BG's are bullies that prey on those that can't fight back. Look at the statistics of how many old people are mugged vs the young folks that can take care of themselves.
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2011
  5. Rhuga

    Rhuga Member

    Oct 25, 2011
    Henderson, Nevada
    Do you believe this?
    According to the book, Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense With a Gun written by Dr. Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz, guns are used 2.5 million times a year by law-abiding citizens in self-defense. That breaks down to about 6,850 times a day(86).
    On it's website The National Safety Council says the total number of gun deaths accounts for less than 30,000 deaths per year. This means that firearms are used eighty times more often to protect the lives of honest citizens than to take lives. Looking at the break down of these 2.5 million cases, we find that a large majority of the time merely brandishing a weapon or firing a warning shot to scare off the attacker is all that was required. Less than 8% of the time is the attacker wounded or killed.

    Even anti-gun criminologists Philip Cook and Jens Ludwig from the Clinton Administration published a study in 1997 called “Guns in America” for The National Institute of Justice. In this study they admitted that according to the Justice Department there are as many as 1.5 million cases a year where guns are used in self-defense. George Will in “Are we a Nation of Cowards'?” wrote for Newsweek in 1993 that armed citizens kill more criminals than police do every year, by a margin of almost two to one (1527 to 606). Newsweek readers learned “Only 2% of civilian shootings involved an innocent person mistakenly identified as a criminal. The 'error rate' for the police was more than 11%, more than five times as high.” Some 200,000 women use a gun to defend themselves against sexual abuse every year.
  6. skyfire1

    skyfire1 Member

    Jan 27, 2009
    South Florida
    Because I can't carry a cop.

    but seriously +1 below.

  7. hunter29180

    hunter29180 Well-Known Member

    18 yrs ago a wheelchair bound friend of mine was attacked and shot with his own pistols. the Perps seemed to target him ONLY because he OPENLY CARRIED 2 45 cal BP pistols in retention holsters on his wheelchair. Why do I think the Perps were only after his pistols? Because that is all they took. he had over a grand in his pouch in his lap. a month later his pistols were used in several home invasions till a home owner pulled his own 45 auto. the perps had let the powder get damp and pistols would not fire. 3 perps were sent to their maker that night, the homeowner was a off duty police captain. the pistols were recovered. My friend is scared to carry them now. afraid they may cause another attack and more crime.
  8. tcox4freedom

    tcox4freedom Well-Known Member

    I'm sorry about your friend. I hate scumbags who prey on kids, handicapped & elderly people. (I think there is a "special" place in HELL reserved just for them.)

    It does seem like I heard something about this story. But, I believe his being confined to a wheelchair was relevent to their decision to victimize him. (Had he been able-bodied, it may have been a different story.)

    Does your friend carry at all now?

  9. Another thought is that in a state such as here in Texas where concealed carry is still growing since 1995, the persons with intent toward criminal activity must wonder who is and who is not in possession of a weapon. In a way those of us who have went through the process of obtaining a permit are helping those who CHOOSE not to be able to defend themselves. I do not have an issue with those who do not want to take that responsibility but I do not want them to hamper mine either.
    As a side note, in the county I reside in, out in the country, the sheriff of the county was asked in 1995 what he thought the concealed permit law would do for his county. His reply was, "it is going to make 75% of the county residents legal now". You gotta love Texas.
  10. north tex

    north tex Active Member

    Jan 30, 2011
    Leonard, Tx
    I am more comfortable carrying concealed. Very few people outside of family even know I'm carrying and I like to keep it that way.

    I know this is very true and am glad to be able to legally carry now;)
  11. joncutt87

    joncutt87 Active Member

    May 24, 2011
    Kannapolis, NC
    I don't have my nc ccw permit yet, but by state law I can open carry legally.
  12. hunter29180

    hunter29180 Well-Known Member

    No he dosent. he started carrying them because he carried large amounts of cah at times. he does flea markets for income. he had been robbed and beaten badly then. a poilce officer suggested the 45 BP pistols as CC permits were dificult to get where he lived. open carry of the BP was borderline but acceptable to the Leos there.

    as to the wheelchair being relavant.. yes I think it was. while he was at that time 35 and could out wrestle me. he was still at a disavantage to 2 or more Punks determined to do harm to him. hard to turn the chair when both your hands are being used to deflect and protect the front! 1 person he could have handled.
  13. tcox4freedom

    tcox4freedom Well-Known Member

    I had a stepfather that was a para and I have a friend that has CP. I know how much you can be concerned about loved ones who are confined to wheelchairs. (It can be a very dangerous world for them; esp if they are alone.)

    I remember a time when a lot of BGs had some degree of compassion; and refused to prey on the handicapped & elderly. But, BGs today seem to seek out such people. (I feel for your friend.)
  14. rogerhy

    rogerhy New Member

    Oct 15, 2011
    East TN.
    The best way I have herd it.

    If you are in a group. You have a open gun. That makes you a problem and a target for a bad guy. That siad open gun may be just enough to deter the bad guy.

    Open everyone knows it's there. Concelled probably 5% even notice it.
    Good example. At Boo at the Zoo. I noticed what looked to be lager caliper semi. In the chest holster of the slinder man in the blue vest. Wife never saw it. I saw him a few more times. But only is gun the one time.
  15. weaponofffreedom

    weaponofffreedom New Member

    Nov 20, 2011
    I don't think we should carry concealed, I don't. Not very many of those who carry concealed can present their sidearm in time enough to use it. Do what works for you, not the other guy.

    "It is my firm belief, that if a country's citizens are not fully and truly free, then if not already they will soon be oppressed, not by protest or rebellion, but through the cheers of millions." -quote by me today
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