Winchester 63 problem

Discussion in 'Technical Questions & Information' started by hanajack, Aug 22, 2011.

  1. hanajack

    hanajack New Member

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    Rifle purchased early 60's. It was misfiring and jamming a lot so I disassembled [everything but the hammer and stock assembly], cleaned, reassembled - and now when the bolt is moved full back with the rod the bolt will not come forward. It has been reassembled with the hammer cocked and uncocked. The operating rod works well.

    There may be a mechanism to hold the bolt open when out of shells, but it will not come forward with or without shells. In fact, it couldn't be loaded with the bolt open.

    I'm anxious to get it operating and don't know where to go.

    Any help will be appreciated.
  2. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    Welcome to TFF hanajack. I moved your thread over to Technical Questions and Info forum. There I think you will find the best answers.
  3. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    There is no holdopen on an empty magazine. It sounds like the bolt spring is either not there or the bolt and bolt spring have been assembled wrong. That rifle is tricky to reassemble (the larger ones of the same type are bears), requiring the bolt spring to be put on the rod a few coils at a time.

    Jim
  4. hanajack

    hanajack New Member

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    Thanks for your reply. OK, as I see it, there are two springs involved. The heavy hammer spring and the operating rod spring. That can be difficult to install, but, a 1/16" drill bit in the hole provided will hold the spring compressed for reassembly insertion.

    The operating rod works well and after pushing the bolt back the spring returns the rod forward but not the bolt.

    So, the problem is that the bolt will not return forward and seems to be 'locked' back. The "bolt spring" you refer to does not seem to exist. Perhaps I misplaced it but don't see where one could be positioned in the rifle.

    So, it seems the problem would be the 'locked' aspect.

    What do you think?
  5. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    There are four major springs. The hammer spring (mainspring) is a short stiff spring about 1 1/2 inches long. It powers the hammer. The magazine spring is a long coil spring that fits inside the inner magazine tube; it is not normally removed.

    The third is the operating sleeve spring. This powers the operating rod to return the rod when it is released, independent of the bolt. It is a fairly long and fairly light spring. The last is the bolt spring, which is also a coil spring but stiffer. It returns the bolt to pick up a fresh round and return to battery. It has to be installed around the bolt guide rod as the bolt is installed. That part is tricky, but if the gun worked before, it sounds like you have somehow misplaced the bolt spring or installed it wrong.

    Jim
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2011
  6. hanajack

    hanajack New Member

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    Exactly right! A bolt spring. Wish I had realized that at first reassembly. My only excuse is that the rifle was disassembled for quite some time because I refinished the walnut.
    I shall give you an update.
  7. TRAP55

    TRAP55 New Member

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  8. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    The assembly trick is to have the rifle upside down and then put the bolt in place without the guide rod. Then insert the guide rod from the front, pushing it into the spring. The spring has to be bent so you can insert only a few coils at a time as you push the guide rod back. Hold the spring with a small screwdriver to keep it in place on the guide rod. When the spring is all the way into the bolt, and the guide rod all the way back, screw the guide rod into the receiver.

    Jim
  9. hanajack

    hanajack New Member

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    Thank you gentlemen! Won't go through the trials and tribulations of coming up/finding a bolt spring but all installed now.

    My next issue is about the 'hammer action/firing pin'. While looking for solutions, I noticed that there was a hole with no pin on the end of the hammer spring guide rod [#37 on TRAP55's schematic] which allowed the hammer to go much farther forward.
    I do not know how long the pin [#37A] had been missing - or fell out during this last disassembly; or, if it even should be there as it's description is: "Slave pin [for guide rod disassembly".
    I filed down a tough barbed nail to size and it is installed as the rod pin and holding up.

    Thus, if it should have been there but wasn't, the firing pin was perhaps being struck with too much force - possibly damaging the firing pin. With the rod pin now installed, I tried firing it twice - both misfires. Both shells [stingers] had very light dents on the rims.

    Opinions?
  10. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    I am confused. The diagram does indeed call 37A that but shows it as a slave pin for installing the mainspring (hammer spring). Does your guide rod have a hole through it crosswise? If so, a pin can be put in the hole sticking out at one side and the spring captured by sort of "screwing" it onto the rod, after which it is removed. But I seem to recall that the hole is not there from the factory; they were drilled by gunsmiths to make assembly easier. The hole in the mainspring guide is there from the factory, though, and the slave pin would be in the correct place in that case.

    A slave* pin, FWIW, is a pin used for dis- or re-assembly that is removed after its purpose is served. Sometimes, rarely, the maker will include one in the gun, but it is not really a part of the gun. Again, sometimes, a part of the gun can be used as a slave pin and instructions include that information.

    *Yes, I know the current politically correct term is "helper pin" but that old parts list calls it by the old name, and that is what I have called it for years, with apologies to my African-American friends.

    Jim
  11. hanajack

    hanajack New Member

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    Thanks for that JK. The guide rod does have a hole through it crosswise. It certainly looks factory made - [the rifle was purchased new]. Your slave/helper purpose explains the misfire and light rim dent on the bullet; thus, I will remove my self-made pin.

    Meanwhile, when you say: "The hole in the mainspring guide is there from the factory, though, and the slave pin would be in the correct place in that case.", first, are you referring to the[24] bolt spring/[13]bolt guide rod or the [12]operating sleeve spring/[9]operating sleeve - [which does have a factory hole]? I saw no hole in the bolt guide rod. And second, by your definition, would the slave pin you refer to be in the "correct place" assembled?

    Thanking you in advance.
  12. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    The mainspring of any firearm is the one that drives the hammer or firing pin. It is called the hammer spring in that gun (38). The hammer spring guide (37) also has a hole in it so a slave pin (37A) can be used in assembling the hammer, hammer spring and guide. When I said "correct place" I was referring the slave pin's (37A) place in the picture, adjacent to the hammer spring guide (37), not next to the bolt guide rod (13).

    If the guide rod (13) has a hole through it, fine; the factory may have put it in and I had forgotten about it or maybe they put it in for later guns.

    Jim
  13. hanajack

    hanajack New Member

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    OK, got it. I'll take out my 37A and I should be in business. Mahalo nui as they say here.

    [Note: I see my wording was poor; the [13] guide rod does not have a hole in it.]
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