Winchester model 61 WWII bring back

Discussion in 'The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum' started by capgun, Jun 2, 2011.

  1. capgun

    capgun Member

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    Ok guys and gals I have winchester model 61 with a C over a crown over a R over ??? looks like a pot of boiling water sn 38XXX It also has a C.REICHERT WIEN scope on it ,the barrel and receiver were cut to fit in the dove tails for the scope. The story is that it was found in a church bell tower somewhere in germany??? will try to post some pics . I was wondering where the proof mark are from, how old is the gun and does it still have any value??

    Thanks for all your help this is a great forum

    Capgun

    Attached Files:

  2. firelegs22

    firelegs22 New Member

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    Your rifle is post war, I am almost sure about that. the fact that the reciever was drilled will most likely take away from the value. I did find another site about these rifles when I was researching mine that is very informative.

    http://homesteadfirearms.com/appraisals/61/61-1history.htm
  3. BillM

    BillM Active Member

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    Made in 1939 according to Bluebook.

    Can you get some good clear pictures of the proof marks?
    Several possibilities for "crown over R"
  4. 3/2 STA SS

    3/2 STA SS Active Member

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    I went to a gun show once and a guy had a Modern Mossberg Model 500 that was painted green and tan with what looked like Krylon spray paint and he tried to tell me that he carreid it Vietnam. Church Tower in Germany? Doubtful-maybe trying to explain why they put a European Scope on an American Rifle. Too bad they drilled it.
  5. capgun

    capgun Member

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    Not drilled CUT for dovetails and this rifle has proof marks from somewhere so it must have been imported to another country The story ??? but he also brought back a walther single shot 22 rifle, Looks like a sportsmodel but is not marked sportmodel
  6. jjmitchell60

    jjmitchell60 Active Member

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    As to the n61 being a bring back, I have trouble with that. Scope maybe. As to the Walther you mentioned, that would be something found in Germany. Now with that said, if the story was it came from the UK (England) I would say plausible being when WWII broke out in Europe there was a real scare that the UK would fall to Germany. The UK was in need of guns of ANY kind and the US population, local government agencies, and federal government sent ALL makes & models of guns to the UK so they could defend their home land. The thinking was if every citizen of teh UK had access to a firearm, it would be like trying to invade the US. Anyways, as to teh Germany I am not calling anyone a liar but I would not put aany faith in it on the Model 61 itself.

    As to value, it is not original so that does take some away however what it takes away, the German scope is a desirable scope that has value in itself so it should off set any detraction of the modification to add the scope to the rifle IMHO.
  7. Bert H.

    Bert H. Member

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    Actually, it was manufactured in 1938... definitely pre-war though.

    Bert H.
  8. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    Why does there always have to be some military connection with guns? Winchester, Remington, Colt, S&W and other American gun and ammunition companies have exported sporting arms to the world, just as did Walther, Mauser, Webley & Scott, Manufrance, and thousands of other companies, American and foreign.

    I know nothing about the history of that rifle, but there is no reason it could not have been in Germany during WWII. Anyone who thinks American GI's seized only German military guns is in dreamland. The conquerors ordered the Germans to bring out all the guns in their houses; American soldiers took what they wanted and the rest were laid on street and run over by tanks, then scrapped. In other cases, Ameerican searched German homes and simply took what they wanted. If anyone resisted, tanks fired into the house. It was a scene from Sarah Brady's dream about what she wants here.

    Rather than come out and say bluntly that they stole some German hunter's sporting gun, vets concocted stories about how some Feld Marshcal was carrying that drilling, or sxs double, or .22 target rifle when he was captured after a hand-to-hand struggle which was won by the noble American.

    Jim
  9. whirley

    whirley Member

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    All firearms were registered in Germany, civilians were told to put their guns outside . Soldiers took what they wanted. In 1949 I hunted pheasants and woodcock in Japan. The guide had a Gordon setter. He also had a beautiful 12 gauge English double heavily engraved with grouse inlaid in gold on both sides of the receiver. He picked it up when the Japanese occupied Singapore. Winner takes all.
  10. capgun

    capgun Member

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    Thanks Bert H. for the info
  11. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    It really didn't matter much if the guns were registered or not, though the Americans did use the registration lists to locate guns that hadn't been turned in. When a tank's main gun is pointing at your front door, and you are told to bring out your guns, and you know that if you try to resist your house will be searched and your family shot, you do what the nice soldiers tell you to.

    An outfit called "Citizens Against Guns" once proposed that "the armed forces search every house in the country, and execute, without the nonsense of a trial, every person in a house where a gun or a bullet is found." They called it "a reasonable approach to gun control."

    Jim
  12. capgun

    capgun Member

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    here are some pics of the proof mark
    thanks for your help and info

    Capgun

    Attached Files:

  13. hrf

    hrf Well-Known Member

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    The "pot of boiling water" mark (aka flaming bomb) with cursive L is the Belgian proof for guns not made in Belgium, and the crown over R is also their proof.
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2011
  14. capgun

    capgun Member

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    Thank you for the info , still trying to find out the value if any.
  15. hrf

    hrf Well-Known Member

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    The average of five sold online last 30 days = $685, but no idea of the Austrian scope's quality or worth, or if it adds or detracts. Your closeups also indicate some surface rust, which may have extended to the bore?
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