with or without one on the chamber????

Discussion in 'Self Defense Tactics & Weapons' started by gunlearner, Feb 16, 2007.

  1. Pat Hurley

    Pat Hurley Former Guest

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    I can confirm that Israeli's don't keep one in the chamber. That's probably because they're faster at racking one and then firing on target, then 90% of people who keep one in the chamber.

    About five years ago, I went shooting with two of my company's former Shin-Bet members. Talk about being humbled and humiliated. They wore a business suit and kept their Glock's (yuk!) in the small of their back. On the word "go" they crouched, drew while racking, and emptied a full clip in the center mass of an Osama Bin Laden likeness, before I could get off two rounds and my gun was much more accessible than theirs. In summary, if this were a real world gun fight, I'd have had about 10 rounds in me before my first shot would have left the barrell.

    These guys are scary good. They are professional and lethal to the extreme, and though I far outrank all of them, I've made it a point to stay on their good sides. It is hard to argue with the efficacy of their methods though we might find them unorthodox.

    Perhaps the lesson here is a simple one... if you can rack and shoot with the speed and accuracy of an Israeli agent, then there's no need to keep one in the chamber. If not, you'd better find a way to leave one in there safely.
  2. Kahr

    Kahr New Member

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    I carry a Smith 5906 chambered with the safety off.

    Edit: Just thought I would specify a couple things, one the DA on this weapon is equivalent to a revolver so I don't see the need for the safety, and two I carry in a pancake with a thumb break so no accidentals. anyway that's all I guess.
    Last edited: May 21, 2007
  3. gunlearner

    gunlearner New Member

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    thanks everyone for your comments. i guess the real questions would be what do you feel more confortable with??? and if you were the instructor what method would you recomend your students???
  4. ki4dmh

    ki4dmh New Member

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    I always carry with one in the chamber. My personal preference.
    Scott
  5. graehaven

    graehaven Active Member

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    Always carry with one in the pipe.

    You don't have enough time in a bad situation to do anything but draw, take aim, and fire.

    Safety? I refuse to even consider carrying a handgun that has a manual safety. And i won't buy one. Had one (my first gun - a Bersa .380 - the early model) and i don't carry it anymore.

    I am the the safety. :D
  6. travihanson

    travihanson New Member

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    I like to carry an astra cub .22 short :)

    No safety that I use. I put it in my pocket...I have carried 1911's and when I have it has always been one in the chamber hammer down. I have no trust for safety's...
  7. Ursus

    Ursus New Member

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    Try it while driving a manual transmission car! One in the pipe is the way to go.
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2007
  8. polishshooter

    polishshooter Active Member

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    Now, I hope everybody will forgive me for a contrary view, GOD knows I rarely ever do THAT....

    I know all about cocked and locked in a 1911, I competed with it for years, and it is as safe as any other internal striker weapon with a loaded chamber and the hammer back and safety on.

    And with practice, which is what we all need ANYWAY, that safety is swept off in the draw without any consciuos thought, and even "C" classes can draw and engage multiple targets with 6 shots from a draw cocked and locked in less than three seconds...most times the first shot in less than a second...


    BUT having said that, when I CARRIED the 1911, it was condition 3, chamber empty, hammer down.

    Now maybe with a strap retainer, I would feel safer, but I HAVE had pistols fall out of holsters before...you CANNOT always dictate what position you will be in, in normal day to day activities...on a ladder, under a car, bending over in strange positions, even falling and taking a nasty tumble on ice....

    Again, WITH PRACTICE, racking the slide is NOT that slow to bring into action, and especially with the 1911, ONE HANDED racking is pretty simple to master, as WELL as fast, so the "what happens if one hand is tied up" argument doeswn't hold up...it IS easy once you try it and practice.

    As far as "what if the round hangs up on chambering," well, SORRY, you are carrying the wrong weapon if you don't KNOW it will feed empty cases!

    Now with the Makarov, I will carry it with the chamber loaded, and the hammer down and the safety ON. Why NOT use it? I realize it's no different than a DA revolver with NO safety, BUT again, it costs no time, sweeping it off is second nature, so why NOT use it?


    I have a REAL problem with people NOT using safeties when they are available for use....if you don't leave it ON normally, can I really count on you to ENGAGE it when you SHOULD? Probably not, so I'm not sure I want to be NEXT to you on a range, much LESS when the SHTF....I've hunted with lots of guys ONCE who leave the safety off their shotguns or rifles to "not waste any time" when they need to shoot.

    I never hunted with ANY of them a second time...:cool:

    That simply tells me they really DON'T understand firearms or firearms safety.

    Like I KNOW my '97 shotgun is "unsafe" with a round in the chamber, even at "half-cock," JMB INTENDED it to be "racked" just before firing...and that IS the way I carry it when I hunt small game, and usually when I have it slung upside down over my back.....

    BUT for deer, I have to have a slug up the spout...so it took TIME and PRACTICE to come up with the way I hold it and carry it that way, with the web of my hand pressing up against the hammer...again, it is NOW second nature in the field, but it took time AND practice....

    It's really simple, KNOW YOUR WEAPON, through practice, and USE the safety if it HAS one....and ALWAYS keep your finger out of the trigger guard whether it HAS one or not until it's time to shoot.

    As for chamber empty, know the advantages and disadvantages of each method, PRACTICE both, with YOUR pistol and make your OWN call what is best for you....
  9. ampress01

    ampress01 New Member

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    Having a round in the chamber, no safety, is like having a revolver. There is no time to chamber a round when being attacked. The 21 foot rule prooved that. For those who don't know what the 21 foot rule is, it has been pooven beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you cannot draw and fire your weapon faster than an attacker running at you within 21 feet and stabbing you. That is unless your Doc Holiday, and maybe some of you are, but the average cop/citizen is not. Having said that , I would not keep my hammer back without a safety to hold it back. In an armed conflict at close range it's highly likely to go off unintended. Also if your in a shootout , you don't want some liberal prosecutor twisting the facts and saying that you were some cowboy gunslinger, who was reckless and blood thirsty, or maybe having an accident and having the same prosecutor charging you with negligent homicide, or at best a civil court taking your house and savings, because your finger slipped as you tripped on an icey floor. Murphy is like the devil, just waiting to help you trip up, because your out there trying to do the right thing, and no good deed goes unpunished. So hey, lets be carefull out there.
  10. ampress01

    ampress01 New Member

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    Having a round in the chamber, no safety, is like having a revolver. There is no time to chamber a round when being attacked. The 21 foot rule prooved that. For those who don't know what the 21 foot rule is, it has been pooven beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you cannot draw and fire your weapon faster than an attacker running at you within 21 feet and stabbing you. That is unless your Doc Holiday, and maybe some of you are, but the average cop/citizen is not. Having said that , I would not keep my hammer back without a safety to hold it back. In an armed conflict at close range it's highly likely to go off unintended. Also if your in a shootout , you don't want some liberal prosecutor twisting the facts and saying that you were some cowboy gunslinger, who was reckless and blood thirsty, or maybe having an accident and having the same prosecutor charging you with negligent homicide, or at best a civil court taking your house and savings, because your finger slipped as you tripped on an icey floor. Murphy is like the devil, just waiting to help you trip up, because your out there trying to do the right thing, and no good deed goes unpunished. So hey, lets be carefull out there.
  11. Tom Militano

    Tom Militano New Member

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    I carry a Springfield XD .40 S&W subcompact with one in the chamber.
  12. boni

    boni New Member

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    when we were under threat before i would always carry my firearms cock n lock. always loaded. would you carry the same if you were actual threat to you and your family?:)
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