Worker who shot at robber suspended

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by sheepdip, Jan 1, 2006.

  1. sheepdip

    sheepdip New Member

    May 16, 2004
    A McDonald's worker who shot at a woman who robbed the restaurant on State Street in New Albany on Christmas Eve has been suspended from his job because of the incident.
    Maintenance worker Clifton Brown Jr. had taken a 9 mm pistol to work on Dec. 23 and had it with him outside the restaurant as he and another employee took out the trash shortly after the midnight closing, New Albany police said.

    That is when a woman, who was on foot, put a gun to the back of the second worker and then robbed the restaurant through the drive-through window.
    Brown pulled his gun out and ordered the fleeing robber to stop, he told police.
    The woman stopped but raised her own gun, Brown told police. He responded by firing two shots at her before she continued to flee. Police, who described Brown as in his early 50s, said they think both shots missed their target.
    Ron Vanover, owner of the restaurant, said yesterday that guns are prohibited at McDonald's. Vanover said Brown is suspended "pending an investigation."
    Calling it a personnel matter, he would not say what might happen at the end of the investigation.
    "It's just unfortunate that it happened and it's unfortunate that somebody reacted that way," Vanover said of the robbery and the firing of shots. He called Brown's reaction inappropriate.
    "I think that's common sense. Money can be replaced; lives cannot," Vanover said.
    Brown, who could not be reached yesterday, has a permit to carry a gun, New Albany Detective Keith Whitlow said. "We don't have any reason to believe that Mr. Brown has violated any laws," Whitlow said. "It's up to McDonald's to decide" what happens with the employee, he added.
    Whitlow said that he's "not overly enthused about untrained individuals engaging in stuff like that," but that once the robber raised her gun, Brown "was in jeopardy" and had a right to defend himself.
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2006
  2. pickenup

    pickenup Active Member

    Needs more practice.

    She WAS fleeing, at that point, she was NOT a threat (raised her gun) until HE confronted her.

  3. sheepdip

    sheepdip New Member

    May 16, 2004
    Good point, had not thought of that.
  4. rmrdaddy

    rmrdaddy New Member

    Feb 22, 2003
    southern NJ
    Most retail stores have a no weapon policy (employees and customers..). The owner, Vanover, said it "money can be replaced, lives can't".
    The rule of retail when I was in it years ago was to do what they asked, give up the money, take good mental notes and be able to ID the bastards if you ever got the chance.
    Did the idea of it stick in my craw a bit, yeah it did, but.... "live to fight another day is as good a motto as any...

    BUT, in any event, I'd say the ower needs to give the guy a raise anyway. He took a chance, and for what? The money wasn't his, right.... The injustice of it probably got to him... my .02 at least
  5. berto64

    berto64 Active Member

    Out here and in AZ when I lived there the rule is....if they are fleeing, they no longer pose a threat to you or others, then you take NO ACTION other than notifying the police.

    Make your observations and write them down after the event while they are still fresh in your mind and refer to your notes when interviewed by the Police.

    The police will appreciate the information much more if you can show them your notes and describe what happened with fresh references.

    Happy New Year!!
  6. The issue of carrying a weapon against "company policy" is always a ticklish one, I think. It always places one in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. My own philosophy has always been that if I carry my weapon and legitimately have to draw it, I may indeed get fired, but at least I'll still be alive to tell the company to "take this job and shove it," in the words of the country western song. Having "I told you so" carved on one's tombstone is small consolation for being right in the first place.
  7. 3gunner

    3gunner New Member

    Jan 7, 2005

    The robber was armed and went so far to hold one person at gun point. Just because they begin to flee, which is what are robbers do at some point, what makes you believe they do not pose a threat to others? Do you suppose that robber may have carjacked someone further down the road or parking lot. Is it possible another customer could have unwillingly walked into the robbers path and been seen as a threat to the robber. No one can honestly say that a fleeing armed criminal does not pose a threat to anyone.

    I say way to go Mickey D's employee for having a set and not being too sheepish to use'm. He had every right to try and stop an armed violent criminal before he/she moved further down the road to jab thier gun in someone else's back.
  8. BobMcG

    BobMcG Well-Known Member Supporting Member

    The fact that the suspect was already fleeing could have created a legal problem for Mr. Brown. However, he didn't cuase the robber to stop fleeing by firing his weapon at her. He requested her to only to stop.

    But due to Brown's request for the robber to stop, the robber is no longer fleeing at this point. Instead the robber raises their firearm. This might just confuse the legal issue a bit. I believe the request to stop though could be reasonably understood as a request to stop and surrender .

    She had raised her weapon at Mr. Brown before he fired at her and before she continued to flee. He was not at that point shooting at a fleeing subject.

    1) Screw McDonalds.
    2) I wouldn't have missed.
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2006
  9. Deputy Dawg

    Deputy Dawg Active Member

    Once she was fleeing, she was no longer a threat untill she turned around and fired at him, but once she stared running again she was no longer a threat.If she was to trying to car jack someone or take someone for hostage then he could use the defense of a third person,good thing no innocent people were hit, the bottom line is he should not have missed,i would not have to missed, in a confortation you have to be in control and stay as clam as possible. At one time 22 years ago i was a manager at a fast food resturant here and I allways carried a gun with me for just in case. I will praise him for having the courage to carrying a firearm with him at work and knowing it sould cost him his job if he had to use it.Do not take the shot unless you are confident you can hit your target.practice, practice practice. When you are at the range or where ever you shoot try running had get your heart rate up then shoot at your target, starting at the 50 or 25 yd line and working your way up to the 7yd line, try shooting standing, kneeling , and laying on the ground on your stomack and you side,and you have to practice rapid fire because a lot of times in a confortatoin you only have a split second to make your shot.
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2006
  10. user_error

    user_error New Member

    Dec 19, 2005
    McDonald's has the absolute right to respond in any way it sees fit with its employees. Suspend them for protecting your store and your employees if it pleases you, I say to McD's. McD employment is legally considered *at will* employment, and they can fire you whenever they want, even if you look at management funny. That's the law.

    That said:

    McD's behavior in this is REPREHENSIBLE.
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