WW2 Walther PPK w/Swastika Grip

Discussion in 'The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum' started by bmw750, Feb 27, 2012.

  1. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    OK, so bmw750's gun has fake grips. A better question for those who have large Walther collections would be: How do we tell genuine eagle grips? Or even genuine pre/wartime grips in general? What do the insides look like? What are the mold numbers or maker's code? Is it certain that all Walther grip screws went in from the right side? Do all Walther grips (except the wood ones and the PL grips) have the Walther banner? Do we know that there were no black PL grips or PPK grips until late in the war?

    I have no problem with declaring as fake such absurdities as those on that other site, or the cheap Franzite grips, but if those on the OP's gun are fakes, they appear to be good ones. Are they the late black grips you mention, put on an early gun, or just plain fakes made in the U.S. in recent years?

    This sort of thing can get interesting, but I think we need more info than just "so and so says"; even books are not always correct, as we all know.

    Walther grips would be an interesting area of study, possibly even worth a book in itself. One question for now - why are the grips on my PP RFV, which appear to be otherwise correct, without the Walther banner?

    Jim
  2. bmw750

    bmw750 New Member

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    SSMN states "there are many black Party Leader grips around and so far they have all proved to be counterfeit. While anything is possible, no black Party leader grips have been found and determined to be authentic to this point."

    Again I ask: Is there a way to verify authenticity?
    Apparently, according to SSMN, there is a way to prove that my black Party Leader grips are counterfeit. If anyone knows how to prove authenticity one way or the other I'd be happy to try. I might even be persuaded to remove the grips and take as many photos as necessary if I were certain I could actually prove something, but I am not looking forward to doing that.
    Thanks for everyone's input.
  3. dcriner

    dcriner Member

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    I would remove the grips, and see if there are telltale marks left on the frame by different, original grips with slightly different dimensional tolerances
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2012
  4. wonderwhippet

    wonderwhippet Active Member

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    bmw, if you think yopur grips are repros, I will trade you a set of original plain grips and give you $300 to boot.
  5. bmw750

    bmw750 New Member

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    Appreciate the offer, it's looking like it will take me a while to determine one way or the other. Some kind folks on this site have been very helpful in that regard.
  6. Conman

    Conman Member

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    bmw750,

    You have a PM.
  7. bmw750

    bmw750 New Member

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    Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread.
    I have uploaded two photos showing the interior of the black PM grip. I have tried to highlight the metal plates on the interior of the grip as well as other features.
    I would like to send these photos(as well as others) to Jim Rankin and Dieter Marshal and possibly others you may recommend.
    If you have contact information or if you can otherwise get me in touch with Jim Rankin or Dieter Marshal, I would very much appreciate it.

    Attached Files:

  8. SSMN

    SSMN Member

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  9. bmw750

    bmw750 New Member

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    SSMN,
    Thank you for the email address to Dieter Marshal and the link to the photo of the obviously fake black Party Leader grips. I'm pleased to know mine look so much better.
  10. denny 714

    denny 714 Member

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    bmw750

    I am no expert either, but I would not be to quick to dismiss the fact that your black party leader grips may VERY WELL be the Real McCoy....I have a feeling they are the real deal.
    Best of luck with them....Do have them checked out by someone who is an expert !!!.....

    Denny G.
  11. crazy charlie

    crazy charlie New Member

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    I would post this on the p38 forum. They have a section for WW-II PP & PPK's.
    Dieter Marshall is a member and frequents the forum.
    The 'capture papers' are interesting and in most circles add value to the pistol.
    The pistol might have been a private purchase and the purchaser may have become a Party Leader after the purchase. Who knows?
    The date of manufacture 1935 seems right.
    I wouldn't begin to speculate the value, but it would probably be $1000+.
    I had a 1939 PPK that I gifted to my Daughter (her Pap brought back from WW-II w/capture papers) conservatively valued @ $1500.
    Sentimental value priceless.
  12. schooner.207

    schooner.207 Member

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    hello , your gun looks right as rain, go over to p38 forums for comparisons, try to post your pics , two have already been shown
  13. denny 714

    denny 714 Member

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    bmw750,

    Did you ever get confirmation as to weather the "Black Party Leaders" are real or not ??? !!!.....


    Denny G.
  14. Ed Wagner

    Ed Wagner Member

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    I would think it entirely possible that the original owner could have installed later fancier grips for whatever personal reason.
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