wwII pistol

Discussion in 'The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum' started by dot190, Jan 22, 2007.

  1. dot190

    dot190 New Member

    Jan 22, 2007
    I have a pistol that my uncle got while he was a pow in germany during wwII.

    On the barrol is sais fegyvergyar-budapest frommer-pat. stop cal.7.65(32)
    On the same side of the gun as the above inscription on the ring around the trigger it sais Bc 21 with some kind of design between Bc and 21. on the other side of the gun by the trigger it has the letters VR.

    I searched the internet for a gun like this and it came up with some hungarian models but those had FS on the handle.

    This gun has a wood handle and on one side it has a round piece of metal that sais deutches reich 1945 with a bird and a nazi symbol in the middle. On the other side it has a similar round medal piece that sais the same thing but sais 1940 instead of 1945.

    I have searched extensively on the net and can not find any pistol that is similar. Any information about this gun and what it might be worth is appreciated.

  2. 22WRF

    22WRF Well-Known Member

    May 10, 2004
    Pistol was mfg by Fommer in Hungury.
    The Bp is for Budapest
    I have to guess with out a pic but sounds like a Model 1912 or "Stop" pistol
    A Offical Service pistol of of the post 1919 Hungurian Army was in service in until 1945.
    This pistol is of a unique design with a rotating bolt and locked breech.

    Frommer is now know as FEG

    Welcome to the forum

  3. Xracer

    Xracer *TFF Admin Staff Mediator*

    Hi dot190.....welcome to TFF. :)

    I think WRF has identified your pistol. The Germans adopted many firearms (particularly pistols) of conqured nations as secondary sidearms....and even continued their production throughout the war.

    Go here: http://www.rememuseum.org.uk/arms/pistols/armsap.htm

    ....and scroll down unitl you reach "Pistol 7.65 mm Frommer Stop Model 19".

    Is this what you've got?
  4. dot190

    dot190 New Member

    Jan 22, 2007
    Thanks for the info.

    The gun shown at the site you suggested, xracer, is not quite the same. As i mentioned earlier it does not have the FS on the handle. I have uploaded a photo of it.

    >>Click to Enlarge
  5. Xracer

    Xracer *TFF Admin Staff Mediator*

    I think what you have is, perhaps, a later model, or wartime production version of the Frommer.

    The dates and the "Waffenampt" (Nazi acceptance mark....an eagle over a circle with a swastika in it) indicates that it was manufactured during WWII, most likely in the original Hungarian factory during the German occupation of Hungary.
  6. wonderwhippet

    wonderwhippet Active Member

    Jan 10, 2003
    You definitely have a pre-war Frommer-Stop pistol made between 1912 and 1920. It originally had black composition grips, but some GI inlaid two Nazi coins in a set of home made wood grips, and the eagle over swastika symbols appear on the coins, not on the pistol. It may have been picked up from a civilian during WWII, but it is not a pistol issued to the Wermacht or any other axis power. In excellent original condition it could be worth up to $300, but I would guess this one is worth around $150.
  7. dot190

    dot190 New Member

    Jan 22, 2007
    Thanks for the information. Does anybody know if it is still possible to get ammunition for this gun and where, even if i could buy the individual bullets and load the clip myself?

    Thanks again for all the info.
  8. Xracer

    Xracer *TFF Admin Staff Mediator*

    Yup.....ammunition is readily available. In this country it's called .32 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol).
  9. Zombor

    Zombor New Member

    Aug 5, 2007
    You have a Hungarian made Frommer Stop pistol. What you see on the left front of the trigger guard is the official "acceptence mark" of the post -WW I independent Hungarian Army. You read "Bc" what is intended to be "Bp" /for Budapest, capitol of Hungary/ followed by the Hungarian crest and the last two figures of the year of manufacture. So your pistol have been made in 1921. As I see the wooden grip on the photo, "Reich Mark" coins are mounted to the late version / completely official, factory made/ wooden grips to the place of the oval F S logo.
    About the ammo, I found the following on the net:

    "Most productions of the gun were chambered in 7.65mm, though it is an abnormal type of cartridge, having a crimp in the casing where the base of the bullet sits, and being "hot" loaded. This round achieved a velocity of 920 feet per second from the gun. Modern ammunition does not work in the Frommer STOP without modification of the gun. Some of the STOPs produced were chambered in 9mm Kurz (.380); again, an abnormal cartridge, with the same crimp and hot load. The proprietary ammunition for the Frommer STOPs is not produced, therefore making the gun a display piece."

    I fired the little brother of the Frommer Stop, the "Frommer Baby" /The same pistol with smaller barrel and smaller magazine/ with modern cartridge and had problem after every shot. I had to remove the magazine and pull out manually the empty shell. But it may caused by the condition of my pistol.
    Good luck for fireing your Frommer Stop! Frank Zombor from Hungary
  10. A most informative post, Frank, and by the way, welcome to TFF! It is always especially pleasant to see new members from abroad. Grab a chair and join in the discussions. First beer is on the house. :D
  11. Zombor

    Zombor New Member

    Aug 5, 2007
    Thanks a lot! It was a pleasant mission becouse Frommer Stop is my favourite pistol. If you talk about Hungarian pistols rifles you can count on me! In other cases I can learn from you! Best wishes!!
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2007
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