WWII Walther PPK - OK, I Give Up

Discussion in 'The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum' started by wwagner12, Nov 5, 2011.

  1. wwagner12

    wwagner12 New Member

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    OK, I give Up ! My Serial # 286892 PPK has me completely baffled.

    Other than the S/N and Eagle over N, there are no markings and I have no holster that accompanied it upon purchase. From www.tague.at serial number listings, it appears to be produced in 1940.

    The original grips are mottled light brown and the magazine has the finger extention.

    So, considering this PPK is somewhat generic, please advise, if possible, to whom it was likely issued: SS, police, party member,Wehrmacht or ??
  2. Jim Hauff

    Jim Hauff New Member

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    wwagner,
    Welcome to the forum. With only the Eagle over N proof it was a commercial model. Absence of any Waffen Amp stampings indicates it was not "officially" issued to military - so...only the gun knows its true history - could have remained in the public domain or may have been picked up by a military person during the war??? Let's see what some of the folks more into the PP and PPK data than I, have to say.
  3. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    Are there really no markings, or do you mean no markings other than the standard Walther factory markings?

    Jim
  4. valbehaved

    valbehaved Member

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    Does the gun have a serial number stamped on the right side of the slide?
    Does the magazine have a serial number on the spine?
  5. wonderwhippet

    wonderwhippet Active Member

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    The eagle over N marking is a government proofmark applied to commercial pistols. If issued by the wehrmacht it has a very small marking consisting of an eagle over 359.
  6. wwagner12

    wwagner12 New Member

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    Dear Friends,

    The serial number is located on the frame behind the trigger.....as usual; no other serial number anywhere on the PPK.The Eagle over N is in 2 places:
    1) Visible on the "bolt" inside the chamber, and 2) On the slide under the chamber opening.

    No serial number on the magazine.

    Of course, it has the Walther markings on the slide in the usual location.

    That's it, no other markings.

    So, it's an early WWII PPK.....you might say a "Generic" PPK since it doesn't have any of the various marking found on the Wehrmacht, SS or RZM PPKs.

    From the popular book on SS PP/PPKs, the S/Ns come very close - within 1000 of my S/N, 286892K

    What say you ??

    wwagner12
  7. RJay

    RJay Active Member

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    It is a commercial Walther PPK. It could have been owned and used by a shopkeeper, a butcher, baker or candle stick maker. It could have been carried as a personal firearm by a German soldier. From the markings you described it was never a military issue nor any type of " Nazi Party gun ". Someone went down to a German gun store, laid so many German Marks and carried it home. Come the American liberators who confiscated all the small arms they could find and it found its way to the states. There is no way to tell who or what or when ,if ever , it was used by. :)Sorry about that.
  8. wwagner12

    wwagner12 New Member

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    Thank you Gentlemen,

    It appears the concensus is that my Serial # 286892 PPK sat out the war in the drawer or desk of a German civilian.

    If may be considered somewhat unique since in all my poking around on the internet looking for its origin, I have yet to see a similar PPK devoid of any
    markings other than the S/N and the proof marks.

    So, unless I find a documented serial number that tells the whole story, I am
    pleased with your replies which are quite logical. It didn't occur to me that any of Walther's WWII production went to other than a government agency.

    Many thanks,

    Bill Wagner
  9. SSMN

    SSMN Member

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    Bill,
    I am the author of the "popular book on SS PP/PPKs" and as you stated, your gun is not far off from those documented in the book. But in that particular serial number range, it would require a serial number to be present on both slide and frame (as well as on both original magazines) to confirm SS issue.

    Just because it has no proof of SS or military issue does not mean that it did not see service during the war (1939-1945). By the end of the war, every weapon that could be begged, borrowed or stolen was pressed into service. It just means that in the absence of any documents confirming issue and/or service your gun has no chain of provenance.
  10. wwagner12

    wwagner12 New Member

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    Thanks...........SSMN,

    Your comments are most welcome & appreciated.

    All of this is only for my historical interest. I really like my PPK.......what an excellent and handsome piece of engineering. Since I am a mechanical engineer, I have a special appreciation for this clever design.

    Here I have a weapon, that if it could talk would relate some fascinating
    accounts of that era between 1940 - 1945.

    So, maybe more records will emerge and help me find my PPK's origin.

    As I understand it, the Walther factory was overrun by the Russians who
    took many of the records. If they still exist, they could open up another
    chapter of your "SS Walther PP/PPK Identification & Documents" book.

    Best Regards,

    Bill Wagner
  11. SSMN

    SSMN Member

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    Bill,
    To let the cat out of the bag....I have had a Russian researcher looking for those documents in the Soviet Archives for some time. Their archives are accessible and available for research (with a little baksheesh to grease the wheels). They are located approximately 40 miles outside of Moscow. As you may be aware, the Soviets were as anal regarding record keeping as the Germans, but in the case of the Germans, they were the losers and relatively little was retained (that is, if you consider several million documents still to be found in the US National Archives to be relatively little).

    Huge numbers of weapons disappeared into the East at the wars end. I have heard first hand accounts of railroad cars overflowing with captured arms being shipped to military bases in the Urals. They were being catalogued, refurbished (ala dipped P38s) and prepared for re-issue to their troops for the expected war vs allies to follow the cessation of WWII hostilities.

    I fully believe that they they are still out there somewhere.

    PS...I appreciate your fascination with these fine guns. I spent my professional life as a mechanical engineer as well.
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2011
  12. matty20147

    matty20147 New Member

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    Hey fellas! New here and need some help! I dont mean to hijack the OP thread but I also have a ppk/s question(s)!
    I aquired today the following...
    Almost 100% PPK/S in 7.65mm
    The marking on the left side are as follows
    Made in W Germany
    Carl Walther Waffenfabrilk Ulm/Do.
    Modell PPK/S Cal. 7.65mm

    Right side markings include the following
    Proof on the the ejection port with the number 70
    What appears to be some sort of graphic following the number 70
    Eagle over N (I believe this to be a N)
    Serial number-249088 directly below the ejection port and another on the frame behind the trigger that number is 249088S
    Interarms Alexanderia Virginia
    There is also what appears to be the Eagle over the N again on the slide just forward of the serrations in the slide.
    Weapon has 2 mags. One is flush the other is finger grove. No serial number on mags just PPK/S 7.65mm
    I also have the orginal owners manual in excllent condition as well as the factory german test target with the matching serial number to the gun. The target is in excllent condition as well with the signature of the armorer on it.

    Guys,
    What do I have here and what is it worth! Thanks for the help!!!
  13. wonderwhippet

    wonderwhippet Active Member

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    You have a post war Walther PPK/S made and shipped to the US in 1970. In 1968 it was decreed that the PPK was not a "sporting arm" and could no longer be brought into this country. To get around this law, the grip frame of the larger PP was mated to the slide of a PPK, thus making it eligible for American import. The caliber is 7.65, which is .32 ACP, the least desirible, hence the least value of the imports. The .380 and the .22 are much more in demand. Value of yours is in the $500 vicinity at the top end, and around $400 at the low end.
  14. jmitchell3

    jmitchell3 New Member

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    Was wondering if anyone could give me a range for the following PPK:

    Walther PPK, black matte (not shiny) finish, black grips.

    s/n 380xxxk, here's the details:

    5th RSHA-Variation (very rough Military-Finish; serialnumber on the floorplate of the magazine)

    Characteristics:
    Legend:
    Walther-Banner
    Waffenfabrik Walther Zella Mehlis (Thür)
    Walther's Patent Cal 7,65 m/m
    Mod. PPK
    Finish: rough Military-Finish, blued
    Grips: one piece chequered Bakelit with Walther-banner, black
    Serial number:
    6-digits number with suffix "K" right on frame
    6-digits number with suffix "K" right on slide
    6-digits number on floorplate of magazine with additional 2 (spare magazine)
    Acceptance stamp: none
    Test proof stamp:
    E/N right on chamber
    E/N right on slide below ejection port
    E/N on barrel near muzzle

    Thank you!
  15. Danny

    Danny Member

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    WWAGER12 to start off with your pistol was manufactured in 1941. That was when the e/n was started. Either the the start or there are collectors saying April the 1st. Not having a pic to view & going by your word on condition, I would value the price at 1200 dollars. Keep it clean & oiled and try to pick up a holster and just a plain bottom mag to complete the rig. Hold on to it, as it will only grow in value.
    Kind Regards
    Danny :)
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