WWII Walther PPK Value

Discussion in 'The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum' started by healey1006, Sep 21, 2005.

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  1. wonderwhippet

    wonderwhippet Active Member

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    Streetscraper, looks like you have a nice postwar PPK .380 probably made in the mid sixties. Without the box, accessories, and spare mag it is worth somewhere between $750 and $1000.
  2. j.hemby

    j.hemby New Member

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    Hi, I have recently come into possession of a PPK I believe is from 1944. I am told that my grandfather returned from WWII in Germany with it but I never heard how exactly he got it. It is chambered in 7.65mm and to me, the untrained observer it seems to be in pretty good condition. I will post some pictures of the gun and holster. If I could get some estimate of the value it would be appreciated.

    Attached Files:

  3. wonderwhippet

    wonderwhippet Active Member

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    You have a very nice late war police issue PPK. The back of the grip is cracked, but this is unfortunately a very common condition in such pistols. The value would be in the neighborhood of $1000, but some buyers might be willing to pay more. The holster is not correct for this pistol, but it does have an additional value of $125, give or take.
  4. Danny

    Danny Member

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    Wonder I beg to differ, but the holster is a police issued holster. Not from 1945 when the pistol was manufactured, but still police. Even though the pistol is a 80% in condition, a end of the war police pistol, with correct holster, and maybe serial numbered mag? would attract serious Walther collectors to pay 1500-2000 for this rig.
    Near the end of the war they were making alot of pig skin & even paper holsters. You have a nice collector grade pistol there. If you scan Ebay you may find some original black grips for it. Hope this info helps?
    Kindest Regards
    Danny:)
    By the way, could you send a closer pic of the mag?
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2010
  5. wonderwhippet

    wonderwhippet Active Member

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    Danny, those grips are very hard to find, and if you did, they would cost upwards of $300. As for the condition of the pistol, it is hard to tell because of the blurriness and poor lighting of the photos, but it does look better than 95% to me, even though it has those late war tool marks. I don't doubt that if it was put up for sale that eventually someone might crawl out of the woodwork with a fistful of money and pay $1400 or so, but finding such a novice customer would take a lot of time and perserverance. As for the holster, it is shown on page 101 of "Military Holsters of World War II" by Eugene J. Bender, and it is for a Sauer Model 38(H).
  6. j.hemby

    j.hemby New Member

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    Thanks for all the input. I am planning on taking my ppk to a local gun shop to get it cleaned and checked for safety and functionality since it hasn't been fired for over 40 years. Sorry about the poor quality of the pics. the screen of my camera broke so I was really just guessing while taking the pictures.
    I looked at the mag and it doesnt have any other markings on it besides the walther banner and the caliber.
    After I get this cleaned and checked out what are you opinions about shooting some with it. I like the idea of firing a piece of history.
  7. j.hemby

    j.hemby New Member

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    Also who do you think would have used this weapon in the war?
  8. Danny

    Danny Member

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    Yes it is possible a wounded or deceased policeman was found & the weapon taken to war.
    Wonder the holster is indeed a 38h, but a police, as I have one. All the police holsters for the 38h & ppk were the same. Here is a nice example from a well known collector selling one on Ebay, item 150404443988.
    Take Care
    Danny:)
  9. wonderwhippet

    wonderwhippet Active Member

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    Good info, Danny. Thanks.
  10. dakotaTex

    dakotaTex New Member

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    I hope I can add to this thread with yet another PPK question.

    I have what I think is a 1939 Walther PPK RZM model. I would like to shoot it occasionally. I realize the grips are somewhat fragile and would like to replace them first. I've removed the grip screw but it didn't really seem to make much difference. I have three manuals that detail how to field and detail strip the gun, but none make any mention of the removing the grips, other than removing the screw. I don't want to damage them, so I would appreciate any help. As I've seen mentioned, the grips do have a very small crack at the top of the backstrap.

    The gun belonged to my dad, and as he is now in his eighties, we are shooting some of the guns he's had but never shot. He has several other PPK's including a .22LR. His grip isn't what it used to be so I'm looking at smaller caliber pistols that will be easy for him to shoot.

    Any idea as to it's value would also be greatly appreciated. There seems to be quite a bit of variability in price, so I've not been able to get a good handle on what it may be worth.

    Thanks for any and all help you can provide.


    dakotaTex

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  11. valbehaved

    valbehaved Member

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    Your RZM is actually a mismatch with an RZM slide and a frame from a later gun. The frame was refinished...I would not worry about the grip as the refinished frame, cracked grip and a mismatch put this gun in a shooter category with estimated value of $700
    Enjoy it.
  12. dakotaTex

    dakotaTex New Member

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    Thanks for the reply. So if I check the slide, the serial number won't match the frame? Funny, I've had it apart a couple of times and never even looked. I'll do that tonight.

    Even if it's not very valuable, I'd still like to replace the grips. Any suggestions? I found a wood pair for about $50 that I think would feel better than the plastic ones. Or, I suppose I could use a Houge wrap.

    In a way I'm glad it's worth what it is. I can shoot it without worrying about it quite as much. A shooter is exactly what I wanted.


    dakotaTex
  13. valbehaved

    valbehaved Member

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    You should be able to slide of the grip if you remove the grip screw and pull the grip to the rear and down - at about 35 degree angle to the horizontal. If it does not want to go - try to spread the front edges of the grip away from the frame by a millimeter or so and pull on the grip again with the front edges slightly spread..
    good luck.
  14. dakotaTex

    dakotaTex New Member

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    valbehaved,
    Can you tell me what leads you to your conclusion about the mismatched frame and slide? My dad will want to know, since he bought the gun. He has quite a few other PPKs, all purchased years ago, mostly in the '70's at gun shows. (His records show he paid $175 for this gun.) Is there a good reference work that I can use to quickly evaluate his other PPKs? He did his collecting by setting up a table at gun shows and buying pretty much anything a WWII vet would bring in. I'm sure it was a crapshoot as to what he got.

    Thanks for your help.


    dakotaTex
  15. valbehaved

    valbehaved Member

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    If you pull off the slide and shine some light trough the ejection port to illuminate the inside of the slide opposite the ejection port - you should see 3 digits lightly scribed with a sharp tool. They would be the last 3 digits of the serial number and should match the last 3 digits of the serial on the frame. They can be very faint but shoul be there.. about 1/2 inch tall numbers..
    let me know what you find..
  16. dakotaTex

    dakotaTex New Member

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    OK, so at first I did not see any serial numbers. But after looking around, I found out how to illuminate the slide so the numbers show up. Here's what I found:

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    The second image I made as high contrast as I could. I realize that with such a simple numbering scheme, it is probably pretty easy to renumber a slide. The slide number does match the frame. My dad bought this in 1973, do it would have to have been done long ago.

    Now, to make things interesting, on another forum someone posted the following:

    "Serial # 199279K is a reported RZM PPK listed in Jan Still's Axis Pistols". My serial number is *fairly* close to that number. The author of the post said about 4,000 RZM PPKs were made in serial number range 173000K-411000K as replacements.

    The slide number looks funny to me, but maybe that's how they were done. It looks like there might have been another number on the slide originally, but it's very hard to tell. If it were me spending a lot of money on this gun, I'd sure want an expert's opinion on slide markings.

    This has been a very educational process. Thanks all.


    dakotaTex
  17. Danny

    Danny Member

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    Hi Tex,
    From looking close to the numbers I would say they are real & not forged.
    It really is a shame the frame has been reblued as it does in fact put this weapon in a shooter grade class.
    All PPs & PPKs had the same type of markings in them. Walther was making more pistols than any other company during the prewar & war time period. There had to be some connection with them & the Nazi party to get these contracts. I have many PPs & PPKs and never could understand the chicken scratching of the last 3 digits of the sn# on the slide. Like you stated, the numbers can be forged, as I have seen them done in my 30 some odd years of collecting.
    However you do have something that your dad handed down to you & that puts it in a bracket that is priceless.
    Kind Regards
    Danny:)
  18. dakotaTex

    dakotaTex New Member

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    Danny,
    Thanks for your insight. My statement that the frame had been reblued is based on valbehaved's statement. Is there some way I can definitively tell whether or not the frame has been reblued? Here is another photo taken with different light:

    [​IMG]

    As I mentioned, my dad has other PPKs. If this really is a good RZM, I might be better off picking out another, less valuable pistol to shoot. If it has been reblued, then it really will become a shooter, although one treated with great care.

    Thanks again. My dad has been following this thread with great interest as well.


    dakotaTex
  19. Danny

    Danny Member

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    Tex if you look around the front side next to the mag ejector there are 3 pin pricks that lead me to believe it was rusted & refinished in that area. Also notice the discoloring around the release button not being the same shade. It either has been cold blued or had the heck buffed out of it. Another thing also, is that pictures lie & to really know is to take it to a gunny & get his thoughts.
    Is there anyway you can gei good close ups, like you did on the slide numbers,
    on the areas mentioned?
    Danny
  20. valbehaved

    valbehaved Member

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    Tex:
    I agree with Danny, the numbers on the slide look correct...and the slide looks original blue also..which led me in the first place to question whether the gun was a mismatch.. Not too many RZMs in that serial range..most cluster in 820XXX-840XXX range
    Still, a nice gun..
    Enjoy.
    Valbehaved.
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2010
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