zastava m57/ tokarev 7.62x25

Discussion in 'Curio & Relics Forum' started by oscarmayer, Apr 23, 2009.

  1. waynescyclegarage

    waynescyclegarage New Member

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    Just got my M57 from SOG. It is in new condition but on my first test I could not hit inside of a 20 inch circle at 15 feet!! After another good cleaning and some practice I can now get within a 10 inch circle at 15ft. I think I have some really crappy ammo, the cases are split sometimes on both sides. I don't know the manufacture but the case is marked 22 on top and 84 on the bottom. I am waiting on some SB ordered from JG and I hope that solves the problem.
    I am really impressed with the condition and workmanship that went into this pistol and I expect to get decent accuracy with new ammo. If not this would be the worst gun I have ever owned. After reading some of the posts I feel better about buying this beautiful firearm.
    huff
  2. polishshooter

    polishshooter Active Member

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    I slugged mine over the weekend and found my bore is .313:rolleyes: They supposedly vary from .307 to .314 or .316! The tighter ones are supposedly the "tack drivers" some guys have and can shoot handloads well....

    Which is probably why my ten yard groups are 4-6".

    I was advised to try Privi Partisan ammo in it it I can't find actual Yugo surplus ammo, since that is the same Serbian factory that made all the Yugo surplus too, so it is INTENDED for the M57...

    That being said, if that doesn't work, I guess I go on my "quest" like I did until I finally found an M38 carbine that shot worth a crap... sell this one, buy another, slug/shoot it, sell it, buy another, slug/shoot it...until I get one with a bore closer to .308...;)

    I slugged mine with a .375 Hornady round ball from my son's .36 Navy...used a section of a broken aluminum cleaning rod and it swaged it down after a few good raps with a hammer from the chamber end, and then pushed it through the bore nicely, with a good impint of the lands and grooves. then I miked it land to land....or is that groove to groove since it's backwards?;)
  3. polishshooter

    polishshooter Active Member

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    And oh yeah that 84/22 is Romanian...I have a box too and my box was labeled....
  4. waynescyclegarage

    waynescyclegarage New Member

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    Thanks Polishshooter, I should get my new ammo tomorrow and will update. I may slug it if I can't get any suitable accuracy. This gun appeared to have never been fired or carried. Hand pick from SOG, nice holster two mags. Only problem was the price was $199.95 but they charged me $205.95? Hand pick and shipping came to $239.95. Still not bad for a new gun.
  5. waynescyclegarage

    waynescyclegarage New Member

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    Hi Polishshooter, still shooting the last of the 22/84 ammo. I stood within 3 ft of the target and hit 10" low and 2" left?!. Slugged it and it is .309
    I have never experienced anything like this. I am no expert by any means but this is very unusual. I will wait till I get some more bullets and will report back.
    WTF
  6. waynescyclegarage

    waynescyclegarage New Member

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    Still waiting on new ammo even though I have no idea how that can explain the accuracy problem.
    Is there any info on manufacture dates of these M57's. I noticed from the pics that most I have seen have 6 digit numbers stamped on them. Mine has 4 numbers, 3879. I would like to find out when it was made. Again it is in like new condition, if I can figure out how I will post some pics.
    wayne
  7. Old Steve

    Old Steve New Member

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    It is much simpler to make a barrel for a Tokarev than for a 1911, the designer went to some length to simplify manufacture. Since I have no means to do the rifling, my solution was to cut a 8 in piece off a Shilen .308 barrel blank and machine away the metal that wasn't part of a Tokarev barrel. This worked fine, and my 1941 Russian is now very accurate, but there at several companies that make an almost infinite variety of barrels for 1911s and others. But as long as the main reason for these guns is to be able to shoot a large variety of overage Eastern European surplus ammuniton of original quality ranging from fairly good to awful, those companies won't be interested in supplying good Tokarev barrels, and the original manufacturers didn't seem to be very interested in barrel quality. The only ammo I shoot in the new barrel is handloads from Starline brass and Sierra bullets. New S&B would be OK but it is more expensive.

    If quality is not an issue, then these pistols are just surplus military junk, some of which is usuable.
  8. polishshooter

    polishshooter Active Member

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    Wayne, what kind of hold do you use on the target? I started with a 6 oclock hold with the target rings resting on the front sight since a lot of milsurp handguns I have shot shoot high, and my first two mags shot low like that too, but directly to point of aim.

    Holding center of the target my groups then centered nicely in the target rings.

    Funny that yours isn't accurate with the .309 bore Hhmmm....

    Many guys claim their Tokarevs are very accurate, although many do not.

    But in comparison every Makarov I have shot, from the East German to the Russian Commercial Baikals are VERY surprisingly accurate with either milsurp of virtually any make or new ammo

    .
  9. waynescyclegarage

    waynescyclegarage New Member

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    Hi Polish shooter, my first trys with my CZ82 were very disapointing but now I am pleased with it. I think my Tokarev will work out also. As I said I am not an expert but I know quality of workmanship and this M57 is well made and I'm sure the problem is me or the particular ammo. I still have not recieved my SB from SG yet, it was shipped friday so surely I will get it tomorrow.
    I will shoot some with a rest instead of standing and see what happens. I had to get used to using a full bead with my CZ with tip of front sight on center and get nice groups.
    I know I can't compare the Tok with my MK11 but I was just shocked at how bad I was shooting. I am certain that this will turn out to be one of my favorites and I will learn how to shoot it properly.
    After all there are guys on this page hitting the pie plate at 100 yds!!
    What are the barrels made of? They look like stainless steel.
    I really should not have judged this gun till I have spent more time with it.
    Thanks everyone, I want it to shoot like my 1895 Nagant, I have a like new 1928 Tula that is a tack driver.
    Wayne
  10. waynescyclegarage

    waynescyclegarage New Member

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    UNBELIEVABLE!! Just came in from the range( front yard) and tried the new ammo from SB and am hitting within a 3 or 4" circle from about 20 feet standing two handed normal shot.
    I did not think it could make that much difference since the old Romanian stuff was not keyholing. No more split cases etc. This will be a favotite:)
    This M57 is a keeper and in the right hands would be a tack driver. Can't wait till I get used to it and try some longer shots.
    Thanks for the help.
    wayne
  11. waynescyclegarage

    waynescyclegarage New Member

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    CLICHE, Tack driver? Off topic but I think I have been using the "tack driver" a bit much. I promise to try to not call every gun I have that shoots half ass decent a "tack driver":)
    But I am still excited about my new old Tokarev, I said it was hitting within a 3 to 4" circle at about 20 feet. I was wrong, I measured it when I came in and it was a 2 1/4" circle.
    wayne
  12. polishshooter

    polishshooter Active Member

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    I have a gun show coming up in a few weeks where I am going to try and find some of the Privi Partisan ammo for mine...Privi is a MAJOR manufacturer in the former Yugo republic and actually manufactures most of the "Wolf Gold" ammo that everybody raves about for commie as well as US guns...plus was the manufacturer that made ALL the military loads for the M57...

    I have had GREAT results from Privi 7.62x54 ammo for my Mosins...better than the S&B/Winchester factory loads so I am kinda hoping for the same results from my M 57...before I sell or trade it...

    But I get GREAT results from my S&B Makarov ammo through my Baikal, they are decent too...so much so that the "Winchester" 7.62x54 ammo you see for sale is actually EXACTLY the same S&B smmo just for $1-$2 more per box for the Winchester name....:p Check it out...EVERY box of Winchester 7.62 x54 ammo says "Made in Czeckoslovakia...":D It's all made by S&B...
  13. polishshooter

    polishshooter Active Member

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    BTW, "Tack Driver" is a relative term...Every ROUND is a potential 'Tack Driver" if you hold the muzzle directly over the TACK!:p:D:D

    THe difference is at what range you can HIT that "Tack."

    Yeah, it is a cliche, even my Swift at 100yds MIGHT hit the tack 1 or 2 times out of 5 shots, but we all need SOME type of description, right?:p

    Let's use a standard definition...I HAVE seen for example guys shoot 2" groups with their custon IPSC .45 auto standing with a basic isocelese grip at 25 yds..THAT is a ":Tack Driver...." (no matter that with the SAME gun I shot 5" groups....:eek::cool:)

    Yeah from a rest the gun will give the most ACCURATE example of what the GUN is CAPABLE of...

    But the only thing you can compare it to is how it shoots at the EXACT same range with the EXACT same way YOU shoot other handguns....

    At 10 yds if I can maintain a good grip, sight picture and SQUEEZE not jerk it I KNOW I can keep my .45, which I built, and while I know is NOT as good as other "custom" guns are, but which I have shot probably more than 150,000 rounds through since 1984, into about 3-4" rapid fire....so that is what I compare all my other handguns to...

    The key is "rapid fire," I found that I could shoot some NICE groups with various target .22 guns in slow/rapid fire matches, but it wouldn't be much use in "real life" situations..I measure EVERY handgun in "rapid fire" groups...how fast cn you aquire the front sight and sqeeze again..

    Now as to my 1895 NAgant...maybe I need to buy some of the expensive Fiocchi ammo for it...but with my Target Nagant Ammo I MIgHT get 4-5 " with it. but I shoot a lot of cheap Aquila .32 S&W Long through it, and I am PLEASED with 10-12" rapid fire with it at 10 yds....:p (funny that when I am on my computer at home that is the CLOSEST handgun available to me in the drawer of my loading bench, loaded with .32 S&W long, so it is amazing that when I am at home, the gun with the most chance of being grabbed in a defensive situation compared with the time I spend anywhere else in my house just MIGHT be that darn Nagant....but I WOULD use it..)

    (If the "situation" happens when I am in BED the perp will face either my Makarov which is more accurate or my .45 which I have much more experience with depending which one my hand touches FIRST...:cool:) (but then again, the M57 is there too now, Hmmm..

    At $8.95/50 for the Aquila vs $32.99/50 for real Fiocchi Nagant ammo I can live with that...and yeah, it is one of my FAVORITE handguns even at that...:p

    I meaure everything with what I can do with my .45 at 10 yds..I competed ISPC with it and have shot somewhere between 150-200000 rounds througn it, of course on my 3rd or 4th barrel, and maybe my 4th or 5th trigger job...it rattles like a buzz bait, but I KNOW I can empty the magazine in maybe 2-3 seconds from a draw into 3-4 inches at 10 yds...

    THAT is my reference...

    I KNOW many shooters can do better...Hell, I never made it better than "B" Class in IPSC...:p But they are using $2000 custom guns when I built mine for a LOT less:)

    But there it is, in MY book, you can keep EVERY round from ANY handgun into 3-4 inches at 10 yds RAPID fire, as fast as you can reaquire the front sight ....you have a "Tack driver..."
    Last edited: May 19, 2011
  14. polishshooter

    polishshooter Active Member

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    Ande as for measuring groups, you measure from the CENTER of the farther hole to the CENTER of the farthest hole from IT......many guys who claim "Niickle" or "Dime SIzed" groups are cheating themselves, by half the size of their bullets....:cool:
  15. waynescyclegarage

    waynescyclegarage New Member

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    I have some of the winchester 7.62 54r for my 91/30 and it IS made in Czeckoslovakia. I would be interested in some of the Privi and some Makarov for my CZ82. I have been shooting anything I could find in the CZ but after this experience with the Tokarev I would like to try some better ammo. Don't give up on the M57 yet till you try some other stuff. It was night and day for mine. No gun show coming up around here that I know of so if you get some extra Privi. save me a box:) I am not familiar with the Baikal but It sounds interesting. I will have to hit Wikipedia.
    wayne
  16. waynescyclegarage

    waynescyclegarage New Member

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    Great info, I am getting re-educated. I really don't give a damn about bench shooting except just to see what the gun can do, I like you only care about what I can do in the situation we don't want to encounter. My Tok now shares a spot with my CZ and Ruger close by and I feel confident which ever one I get hold of when needed. Time for beddy bye if I can get my two boys to quit wrestling and go to sleep too.
    Thanks again
  17. waynescyclegarage

    waynescyclegarage New Member

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    I removed this post
    Last edited: May 22, 2011
  18. waynescyclegarage

    waynescyclegarage New Member

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    I have gotten way off topic, back to Tokarev. What is the ring on the bottom of my magazines? It looks like a lanyard ring but it seems like the wrong place for a lanyard and the pistol has its own ring. I assume the magazine base plate is non removable so no repairs could be made but then what can go wrong.
    Off topic again for Polishshooter, I have never shot the 32 long in my Nagant, I have been getting the real stuff from JG sales made by Hot Shot made in Serbia. 98 grain, I have no info on the ballistics ( muzzle velocoty etc ) but it shoots well.
    The M57 is growing on me every day, no FTE no jams and consistant groups. I am going to see if I can hit anything at some more distant targets.
    wayne
  19. polishshooter

    polishshooter Active Member

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    I will have to try that Hot shot stuff for my Nagant, but the only thing that was available for it when I first got mine was the Fiocchi for like $35/50, and when I had somebody else tell me they shot both the .32 S&W Long and .32 HR Magnum through theirs, I decided to try the .32 Long, especially when I found a couple of boxes of Aquila .32 Long RNL for like $8.95/50...

    I was a little scared of shooting .32 HR Mag through it, that seemed to be pushing it, but the .32 Long shoots through it with no problem, except of course if bulged cases and 6-8" groups at 10 yds you consider a "problem":p:p:p

    I kinda expected some cheap milsurp nagant ammo to find it's way to the market, they made TONS of it, but so far all I have seen in any quantity was that reduced load target lead wadcutter stuff for like $15/40...I still have some left for it, but am saving it.
  20. waynescyclegarage

    waynescyclegarage New Member

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    Hi, Polish shooter and others, I just ordered another M57 for my bestest friend. He liked mine a lot. I am learning to shoot it a little better but I need some more ammo. I have ordered some Privi Partison for like $16 per 50 but where can I get some reloads maybe?
    I think someone mentioned Sierra? How bout some web sites. I have seen some Polish stuff for 70 rounds less than $10 but everyone is out of stock. Hope this hasn't dried up.Saw some Nagant for about $22 for 50, forgot the brand, maybe it was Privi. I will go back and see but I think it was from AIM.
    The Tok is getting to be one of my favorites. I hope the one I ordered is as nice as the first one I got from SOG.
    wayne
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