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Experience with squib loads

3K views 32 replies 20 participants last post by  jwdurf 
#1 ·
One question that has been in my mind since reading in this forum is "If you have a load, primer only, no powder fired in a semi auto what will happen?" Will the slide try to cycle, will it stovepipe, will the bullet remain in the case? As the robber said to Dirty Harry, I gots to know. Yes, with powder you can get any result from not much to kaboom all the way to ...kaboom, but does anyone have experience with what just a primer or what you are certain was just a primer and in what caliber/gun will do? Thanks in advance.
 
#26 ·
That is what I thought, but I would rather have your experience than my thoughts. I am familiar what a squib does in a 357, the semi autos are just a bit scarier. If the cylinder will not revolve because a bullet is stuck halfway in the forcing cone, great, inherently safe. I have no urge to find out if a semi is the same.
 
#3 · (Edited)
One of the older kids at camp reloaded some 9mm rounds that contained no powder- he had forgotten to refill the powder measure.
We caught most of them, but one made its way into our Beretta Storm 9mm carbine.
When it was touched off, the primer-only load pushed the 124 grain plated bullet about 1/2 inch up the barrel. I squirted some RemOil behind the bullet and pushed it out from the muzzle with a steel rod.
No problem.
 
#5 ·
Had it happen the other day with my 9mm with a factory round. Bullet went about 1/2 inch into the barrel and left un-burnt powder all through the chamber. Used a cleaning rod section and knocked the bullet out easily, it was a booger to clean. What a mess. Always remember, if the report doesn't sound right when you squeeze the trigger, STOP! Unload and clear the gun, then check the barrel. If it sounds bad it probably will be if you fire the next round. I've had two squibs in my life and both were factory rounds.
 
#6 ·
I got very lucky once and learned a valuable lesson.

A few years ago I started reloading. After much reading and research I bought a single stage lee press and began reloading .38 spl. A good beginners press and beginners straight-walled cartridge. Was using IMR website for load data, and IMR PB powder (only powder I could find) and 158gr Berry's plated bullets.

I was being VERY cautious and loading near the minimum charges. All went well for first few months.

Then, somehow I severely undercharged a round.

I had just purchased a Cimarron 7.5" .357 Single Action and took the BRAND NEW gun to the range. No one at the range that morning--- had it to myself.

I set up my targets, outdoor, at 45 feet. The paper target was stapled to a larger cardboard backing--- which (the cardboard) already had a few holes in it from previous range seasons.

I loaded one, skipped one, loaded four... which is good practice in a SA with firing pin on hammer. (Close loading gate after putting that last one in, pull hammer back and let it down and firing pin will be on an empty cyclinder)

I cocked the hammer, and fired the first shot. No terribly unusual sound-- sounded (I thought) like a lightly loaded .38spl in a .357mag gun.

However... no hole in target. I thought it was because I was just getting used to the cowboy gun sight picture. "Must have missed..."

So I fired again... sounded ok again... but no hole again! Hmmm... "I'm really off with this gun"

So I fired a third time... (yes, I really did) and this time it sounded strange (again- no projectile hitting target)

I stopped and was going to unload and examine the gun and barrel and found I couldn't turn the cylinder (a bullet was lodged 1/2 way in the forcing cone)

Had to take the gun to a smith and eventually send it off to get new barrel... NO ONE could get those first two rounds out of the barrel. The third round was 'cut' in half when they had to use a press to get the cylinder out... which had to be done to get the two remaining live rounds out. I kept that barrel on my reloading bench as a reminder for a couple of years.

Lessons:
- even though I thought the round sounded ok when I shot... I should have noticed there was not even a puff of dirt in the backstop when i first shot and thought I missed the target (and therefore never have shot the NEXT TWO TiMES without checking gun)

- I should have been double checking my powder charges

- I shouldn't have been loading so close to minimum charges (I now load "in the middle" of the load data)

- I should have tried at least one cyclinder full of factory ammo in new gun to get used to sight picture

- I should have trusted my own "hmmmph... that's odd" when I didn't see a new hole anywhere in target/cardboard and checked the gun

I got REAL lucky (shooting two more after a squib... can you believe it?)

That Cimarron is well made. There wasn't even a bulge in the barrel
 
#7 ·
It happened to me once many years back. Of the guys I regularly shot with, only me and two others reloaded any ammo. I broke one of the cardinal rules of shooting, I shot ammo of unknown and untrusted origin. It was a .357 Mag that one of my buddies had loaded, and got one through with no powder. I kinda' got lucky with this one, the bullet made it as far as the forcing cone and stopped. It wouldn't allow the cylinder to turn, and completely rendered the gun out of service until I got back home and used a wooden dowel and a small hammer to drive the bullet out of the forcing cone and back into the case.
 
#8 ·
A round with bullet and primer, but no powder will not cycle the action. More than likely, the primer will push the bullet out of the case and a short distance into the barrel. Now, this is the dangerous aspect of a squib, many will hand cycle ("tap and rack drill") and feed another round and when fired, KABOOM! I had one squib, that was in 1970 and I learned my lesson. I look in every case I reload to make sure there is some powder in there...
 
#9 ·
On vacation last year in Tombstone AZ they had a shooting range in town in a little shop. They shot 45 Colts with a shotgun 209 primer modified the case to make them fit. Wax bullets. It worked very good. I don't know if it would push a lead bullet out of the bore but it sure moved the wax.
 
#10 ·
#14 ·
I only had one squib load, and it was when I first started reloading. It was a .38 Special thru a S&W K15. I didn't properly clean the case lube that had gotten into the case when I re-sized them and the lube contaminated the powder when I charged the case and reloaded it. Exact same thing as what Twicepop described (and the same "fix" with a wooden dowel).

Scary thing is that back in Basic Training we were taught to do what they called "Immediate Action" with our M14s: If the rifle doesn't fire, we were taught to immediately pull the operating handle to the rear, eject that cartridge and chamber another cartridge and attempt to fire. From what I've learned since - that is completely the wrong thing to do. Lucky thing for us was nobody heard of a squib load.:eek:

If it doesn't sound right at all - STOP FIRING, clear the weapon and check the barrel.
 
#15 ·
I only had one squib load, and it was when I first started reloading. It was a .38 Special thru a S&W K15. I didn't properly clean the case lube that had gotten into the case when I re-sized them and the lube contaminated the powder when I charged the case and reloaded it. Exact same thing as what Twicepop described (and the same "fix" with a wooden dowel).

Scary thing is that back in Basic Training we were taught to do what they called "Immediate Action" with our M14s: If the rifle doesn't fire, we were taught to immediately pull the operating handle to the rear, eject that cartridge and chamber another cartridge and attempt to fire. From what I've learned since - that is completely the wrong thing to do. Lucky thing for us was nobody heard of a squib load.:eek:

If it doesn't sound right at all - STOP FIRING, clear the weapon and check the barrel.
The difference in the training firing line vs engagement applications makes the rules different. The time you spend on waiting a round before ejecting the round that more than likely will not go off is time you are not firing your weapon. That means some one could die from loss of effective firing power. In a firing engagement, no one wears hearing pro and no one would hear a squib. The adrenaline prevents the effective feeling of the squib to tell the difference as well. You are focused elsewhere.
 
#27 ·
True, in combat, but in any combat situation we will be in (i.e. defensive use) the typical recommendation is to not carry handloads. Ironically the base reason for my question was born in experience with Navy 45's in the mid 90's, which were so worn out they jammed more often than they fired. So I guess the funny thing is because the the firearms I was trained to tap and rack were not ones you would trust to preform a tap and rack on; I have asked you guys how to identify a true misfire versus a true tap and rack situation. Or simply put I have questions on ammunition today because of problems with firearms yesterday.
 
#17 ·
Since the OP hasn't responded in more than 10 days since he first posted, hopefully he has at least read the replies. All good advice. While I am no expert reloader, I can offer some advice that I learned after beginning to reload. Take your time when you start out. Don't let the excitement or nervousness push you faster than your confidence. I personally have never experienced a squib load, though have witnessed a few. Even now when I reload I do it in steps. Clean, Deprime, Prime, Charge, seat bullet, Crimp (if needed). All are separate steps, I take a break between each step to check my work. Between Charging the case and Seating the bullet on a single stage press there are two chances to check the charge for each round. This will also help recognize a double charge if it happens.
 
#19 ·
I use a similar method. Once my cases have been cleaned, resized, and primed they are in the loading block, primer up.
Ammunition Brass Metal Optoelectronics Circuit component


I charge each case, and seat a bullet, with crimp if needed. Then I move on to the next case. I can walk away, and come back ten days later, and pick up where I left off. No chance to double charge a case, and no chance of failing to put powder in the case.
 
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#30 ·
Same here. I had one squib (in a .40) early in my reloading journey. The primer managed to push the bullet about halfway down the 4" barrel. Fortunately I heard the difference and stopped before I fired the next round.

I also visually inspect every since case as it goes through my press. I also use a powder cop die as a backup.
 
#20 ·
I only had one squib load, and it was when I first started reloading. It was a .38 Special thru a S&W K15. I didn't properly clean the case lube that had gotten into the case when I re-sized them and the lube contaminated the powder when I charged the case and reloaded it. Exact same thing as what Twicepop described (and the same "fix" with a wooden dowel).

Scary thing is that back in Basic Training we were taught to do what they called "Immediate Action" with our M14s: If the rifle doesn't fire, we were taught to immediately pull the operating handle to the rear, eject that cartridge and chamber another cartridge and attempt to fire. From what I've learned since - that is completely the wrong thing to do. Lucky thing for us was nobody heard of a squib load.:eek:

If it doesn't sound right at all - STOP FIRING, clear the weapon and check the barrel.
The difference is in the Army they were talking about a round that didn't fire. A squib fire's and the primer push'e the bullet out.
 
#23 ·
Yes, that's when the round didn't fire. When you are firing on a line with 20 other guys, you squeeze the trigger - no recoil/no report - perform immediate action with the rifle pointed down-range - and attempt to fire again ----- how do you know the bullet wasn't lodged in the barrel? How can you know for sure if it was a mis-fire or a squib fire under those circumstances? The primer doesn't make very much sound - especially in a rifle - and especially when you've fired a couple mags without hearing protection.
 
#21 ·
On vacation last year in Tombstone AZ they had a shooting range in town in a little shop. They shot 45 Colts with a shotgun 209 primer modified the case to make them fit. Wax bullets. It worked very good. I don't know if it would push a lead bullet out of the bore but it sure moved the wax.
If you drill out the primer pocket to 1/4" you can insert and remove shotgun old 97 Rem primers. newer primer would only require a bit larger pocket.
 
#22 ·
RIght now I am searching for an affordable Used DPS. M Neighbor has an RCBS and I have seen it in operation. But at $399 from Cabela's I am not finding them cheaper second hand. Cabela's has a Lyman on sale for under 200 ATM, so I continue searching.
 
#24 ·
If you pay attention you can either see a case coming out (thus a squib) or a complete round. (lightstrike/misfire/hangfire)
Obviously, when in doubt stop firing and take the appropriate action.

Last time I had a squib was with a .308W, the primer did not move the bullet at all.
Bullet was not crimped either.
 
#25 ·
Thank you to everyone. Sorry I am slow to respond, life happens. Everyone confirmed what I thought but it is easier to ask than to find out you are wrong. I know if you don't flair a case the bullet will never sit on the case mouth without tipping which is a pretty good indication there is no powder charge, and the powder fill occurs in the same step as flaring in at least on my press but I still need to ask. Once again thank you, it cuts down on my paranoia.
 
#29 ·
One of the older kids at camp reloaded some 9mm rounds that contained no powder- he had forgotten to refill the powder measure.
We caught most of them, but one made its way into our Beretta Storm 9mm carbine.
When it was touched off, the primer-only load pushed the 124 grain plated bullet about 1/2 inch up the barrel. I squirted some RemOil behind the bullet and pushed it out from the muzzle with a .22 cleaning rod.
The action did not cycle of course. It did not move at all.
Forgot to refill the powder measure? DOH!
 
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#32 ·
I have fired some factory ammo that had become damp somewhere as it had travel to 3 different states that I lived in 4-5 years. Somewhere in all that, it was subject to a damp environment somehow. The first sound was like a loogie and wimpy feel. Check barrel and all good. Tried another round, same thing. Got rid of ammo.
 
#33 ·
Never had a squib. I hope that I have the presence to recognize it if it happens. I have had a few failures to fire years ago with reloads that I suspected were caused by contaminated primers.
 
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