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44 mag case capacity

3K views 12 replies 5 participants last post by  mikld 
#1 ·
I'm working up loads using current nickel plated Federal brass. Checking case capacity with H-110 I find the Federal brass holds about 2 grains less than either the W-W or the PMC. Can anyone give me the capacity difference any of these cases to a Remington? I'm trying to decipher manual data. The Federal lesser case capacity could possibly create a higher pressure condition. Probably not as big an issue for a straight wall case vs a bottle-necked one but I would like to hear your thoughts. I'm pushing a 240 gr LSWC. I also have IMR4227, 2400, Unique, SR4756 at my bench.
 
#2 ·
I'd say that you need to approach the reloading info you find online and in manuals with the understanding they tested specific components in specific guns that produced the listed data. That's why it's always a good idea to follow the recommendation to start at the minimum load or 10% under maximum listed data and work your way up, looking out for signs of overessure. Using this guideline I wouldn't be concerned about knowing the case volume of each you've listed. What I would do is keep them all segregated as I'm sure you already do. Let's see what some of the gurus have to say and again, welcome to the forum.
 
#3 ·
In addition to what Firpo said, different lots of brass from the same manufacturer could conceivably have different capacities. My 40 year old 45 Colt brass from Remington probably doesn't have the same capacity as new Remington brass.
 
#4 ·
You can take things to the extreme in researching reloading data. The short answer is follow the load data listed in your manual (s), and stay away from Maximum Charges. There is nothing to gain by loading to the maximum charge levels. You will only beat the crap out of your pistol, your brass cases, your hands and seldom - IF EVER - are Maximum Charges accurate. You are also planning on loading up lead bullets - another great reason to avoid Maximum Charges - run them too fast and you will have a mess to clean up inside of the barrel with lead.

I do a lot of loading for the .44 Magnum with cast bullets. For cast bullets I like a mid-range load with Unique. For my jacketed bullet loads I like IMR-4227 or H110. The majority of my cases are FC. I also have a few hundred each of Remington and Winchester cases.

I never share loading data over the computer, but let me just say that with my 245 grain LSWC lead bullets and my Unique powder - after many years I've gone to loading a charge that is just over Starting Grains in the .44 Mag Pistol Data, and happens to be almost exactly Mid Range in the .44 Magnum Rifle Data section of my Lyman manual. It is deadly accurate in both the 6 1/2" barrel SAA and the '94 Winchester Carbine.
 
#5 ·
JB, Points well taken. I have always loaded with jacketed and this is my first venture into the world of using cast. The caster claimed a BHN 16 and you're most likely right about leaving a mess in the barrel. I will go with your Unique recommendation and stick with mid range loads.
Q: I have some LBT 320 gr cast with a claimed BHN of 23-24 I acquired for a possible unfortunate encounter with Ursus arctos horribilis. Would I be better served with the Sierra 300 gr JSP? THX
 
#6 · (Edited)
Sounds like your wanting to avoid becoming someone's dinner. I'd go with the 300 JSP loading them as crisp as possible.

Clarification

As crisp as possible having developed the load from best reloading practices.
 
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#7 ·
I can only offer my humble opinion here. For personal defense, I highly recommend factory jacketed ammo. We've had lots of arguments here on TFF over this issue, and I must point out that I am not an attorney. I did study law in my youth, and I had one professor who was adamant about ammunition, and particularly the issue of factory vs. reloaded ammunition. He impressed on us the notion that an attorney for any person who was injured or killed - regardless of circumstances - would use the 'custom fabricated ammunition' factor against us in a court room on the argument that 'factory ammunition did not cause enough harm or suffering - and so this person manufactured his or her own ammunition to inflict un-necessary harm and suffering" to make you look like a blood thirsty monster.

A box of factory JHC or JHPs aren't all that expensive to have loaded when you might need them. Otherwise just load up your cast bullets for practice and plinking. Save the expensive stuff for the serious use. I like a good, heavy jacketed hollow cavity moving pretty fast in the .44 Magnum for the extra special events. My practice loads are 245 grain cast SWCs.

The alloys for pistol shooting is complex. Best to read up on it if you wish to get in-debth. I use what is called the Lyman #2 Alloy for all of my pistol bullets, and I keep my velocity down below 1200 FPS. I also use the old Allox bullet lube. I size my bullets to about 1 or 2 1000ths over bore diameter - and I never get leading in the bores.
 
#8 ·
As usual Jim, great post.

I think what he's trying to do is to avoid becoming bear poop. I had to do a Google search on "Ursus arctos horribilis" which turns out to be an Alaskan Brown Bear.
 
#11 ·
As usual Jim, great post.

I think what he's trying to do is to avoid becoming bear poop. I had to do a Google search on "Ursus arctos horribilis" which turns out to be an Alaskan Brown Bear.
Little story about avoiding becoming 'bear poop'. It involves pepper spray and little silver bells.

A guy was hunting up in Montana. He'd heard stories about bear attacks, and asked the Park Ranger about how he should prepare himself for his trip into the back country. The Park Ranger told him to carry pepper spray, and wear dozens of little silver bells on his clothes when he went into the woods.

The guy asked the Ranger "How can I tell if there are dangerous bears in the area?"

The Park Ranger replied, "Just look for piles of bear scat that smells like pepper and has little silver bells in it".;)
 
#10 ·
osb, I concur with your choice of the 300 gr. bullet in grizzer bear country except that I'd stick with cast. We used to live in NW Wyoming and I fly fished a lot in the high country where ol' griz liked to hang out. My carry piece was/is a Freedom Arms Mod. 97 in 45 Colt loaded with 300 gr. hard cast bullets at a chrono'ed 1050 fps. Praise God I never needed it to keep me from becoming bear poop.

As Jim discussed loading hot loads in a handgun at higher velocities using cast bullets can present some leading problems. Done correctly 1200 fps can easily be achieved with no leading and lighter bullets can be driven over that with no leading. Caveat is that dimensions have to match. I believe that's more important than the alloy. Also, as Jim mentioned, they're almost never the most accurate. Purely my opinion, in handguns that will take it such as any 44 Mag, Freedom Arms, Ruger, etc. I like to have a load around 1000 fps with a heavy, solid bullet such as a cast. I have never been an advocate of HP's in handguns and never use jacketed in a revolver. Again, to emphasize, that's my opinion and worth what you paid for it.

In several rifles I have loads at or slightly over 1600 fps with plain based bullets and no leading using a 50/50, lead/lino alloy which is about the same as Lyman #2. I think both run about 15 BHN.
 
#12 ·
Hehe. I'm a believer in pepper spray use, but I'd liken' it to downshifting to first gear to get your vehicle to stop. Tagging a bruin with handgun is a last ditch effort. Old sourdoughs told me of shooting over their head to scare them (sonic boom). I have had first hand experience and can attest to this working on ones not in previous contact with humans. But, too many variables to set a hard fast rule except that if they start popping their teeth you're in for a fight.

In 'The Land of Gracious Living', I'll agree with the Sierra 300JSP loaded crisply. My DW is extremely accurate with jacketed and I wont have to deal with fouling issues.
 
#13 ·
Personally, I don't think I'd be comfortable in Grizz country with anything less than a .45-70 loaded hot (I've read many reports of bear attacks and most say they never saw a bear until it was on top of them, waaay too close to have time to pull a weapon).

Anyway, I wouldn't think using a granular substance, gun powder, to measure volume would be consistent enough. One may have the 'grains" loosely in the case, and other times they may be tightly packed. Water is used most often for measuring case capacity...
 
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