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1903 Springfield (not 03-A3)

8K views 81 replies 10 participants last post by  2A-Jay 
#1 ·
I just inherited a 1903 Springfield (Remington) Serial number 3253444 from my uncle. I was hoping one of the '03 experts could give me an approximate Manufacture date an possible Value (for insurance purposes) bluing appears to be about 90% good, (only worn on bolt handle, Safety Toggle and some on Front sight band. It has an original Leather Sling. though I an not sure how to measure the barrel length, I believe it is a 24" barrel.

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Any information or help would be greatly appreciated.
 
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#3 ·
That is interesting, my uncle thought the date would have been around ww 1 time frame. I will call him later today and let him know the year of manufacture. Thanks George.
 
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#4 · (Edited)
Just for giggles, what's the date stamp just aft of the front sight? It's right next to a flaming bomb. Also, and I'm not one of those experts you're looking for, I don't believe Remington made the '03 Springfield in WWI. I looked up a different list I found online and it has the date listed at 1942.

http://www.bowersweapons.com/US MODEL 1903 RIFLE SERIAL NUMBER RANGES.htm
 
#6 ·
Having read up on Marine Corp weapons history during WWII, the Marines were still using 1903 Springfields in the early years of the war in the Pacific, even while the Army was using Garands. so it is possible that this Springfield actually could have seen Combat. Though given the condition of the stock, unless the stock was later replaced, it didn't see action in the South Pacific.
 
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#7 ·
First, I'm NOT an expert on the 1903. I do own an A3, and while I was in the market for it, I learned a little about 1903's in general. The value of the rifle is to a large degree how "correct" the rifle is to it's original configuration. Most American military surplus rifles have gone through at least 1 arsenal rebuild. If you have one that has NOT been and has ALL original parts, you have a highly sought after and valuable rifle. I have seen 1903's all-originals offered at over $2000 (all original, WWI production, with Pederson cutout, in excellent condition). I cannot tell whether yours is all original or not, you would need to let an expert look at it. Pictures will not be enough. If it is not all original, but all correct, around here it would probably go for $600 to $1000, depending upon condition and level of "correctness" (correct meaning parts are correct manufacturer and date range). If it is a mixmaster, $500 to $800. I'm basically going by "asking" prices at local gun stores and shows. You can always look on ********* or other online auction sites to see what they are going for.
I will also state it again, I am not an expert, just saying what my limited experience with 1903's has been.

As far as Remington making the 1903, they started making the 1903 in Sept. 1941. After a period of time they started to use stamped parts rather than milled, until they decided a new model number was necessary. The most obvious change was the change to the receiver aperture sight. Most of the milled parts will have an "R" stamp on them, if they are Remington manufacture.
 
#8 ·
That Remington 1903 is the last of the 1903s made before the change to the 1903A3. Remington 1903s are of very high quality. Remington manufactured them when Springfield Arsenal changed over tooling to produce the M1 Garand for the Army (it took the Marine Corps a couple of years to switch over from the 1903 to the M1).
 
#9 ·
What is the Pederson cut out? Is that the Cutout Toggle (On OFF switch) on the left side of the Action? Or is it something different?
 
#11 ·
Y'all have been a lot of help so far, the information from my uncle was more of a guess as to age of the rifle. Narrowing it down to 10/42 was exciting. Being a novice at this, I am thinking that it appears that the Stock was Varnished by my uncle (as I recall the 03 I carried in boot camp the stock was oiled but had no gloss to it.) Next Question if I might (now that you have piqued my curiousity), is a Pederson Device? ( I know, I am asking lots of questions) But am having fun learning here. thanks every one for your help
 
#12 · (Edited)
That "Off/On" 'switch' is the magazine cut off. This was used to make soldiers/Marines conserve ammo and fire the rifle as a single shot. The theory was to load the magazine with 5 rounds, then engage the Magazine Cut Off to keep the 5 rounds in reserve while the soldier or Marine loaded his rifle one-round-at-a-time and fired.

The 5 round magazine was meant only to be used in an emergency situation.

The Cut Off is large. That was to make it easier for the Officer or NCO in charge of the soldier to quickly visually verify that the Cut Off was engaged.

nmckenzie is absolutely correct: there were 1903 Springfields modified with a slot in the left wall of the receiver for insertion of the Pederson Device's stick magazine, and these rifles are known as the 'Mark 1". The Pederson Device was invented late in WW1 as a unit to modify the bolt action 1903 into a semi-automatic firing rifle. This device replaced the entire bolt of the 1903. The receiver of the rifle was modified by milling the above referenced hole in the side of the receiver to accept the unit's magazine. The rifle maintained the ability to fire the .30-06 round by just removing the Pederson Device and putting the bolt back in. (I've handled Mark 1s, and always 'assumed' that the oval port was for the magazine - and as I've never examined a Pederson Device - I could have it bass-ackwards).

Bit of trivia: Many hundreds of the Pederson Devices were manufactured per General Pershing's requests, as well as many thousands of rounds of the .30 Pederson ammunition. They were sent to Europe, but not issued before the Armistice was signed. They sat on a dock in France when the Great War ended. The Pederson Devices were mostly destroyed or sold for scrap after the war.

The .30 Pederson round is another story. This round was very similar to the .32 ACP cartridge - but much longer. The French examined the cartridge and liked what they saw - but for a pistol caliber. In the 1930s the French developed their own military handgun caliber, the "7.65 French Longue' - an almost direct descendant of the .30 Pederson.
 
#13 ·
(I've handled Mark 1s, and always 'assumed' that the oval port was for the magazine - and as I've never examined a Pederson Device
I once had the opportunity to examine a Pederson Device. It's magazine actually went in on the right side, and was angled upward at what I'd guess would be 15 degrees or so in order to clear the M1903 Mark 1's right hand receiver rail. There were a few other modifications incorporated in the Mark 1. The sear/trigger assembly was redesigned to function with the '03 bolt as well as the semi-auto Pederson Device, which I believe also required a redesigned magazine cutoff.
 
#15 ·
Yet again nmkenzie is right. My feeble old brain just fired off another cell - and the mag inserted from the right. I do not recall anything about a different sear - but I'm not certain enough to disagree. At this rate I'll be completely out of brain cells in another week.o_O

The purpose for the Pederson Device was to enable mass fire for moving infantry to over-whelm the German trenches. It wasn't the 'power' of the .30 Pederson (it was a very weak cartridge for use in a rifle) - it was the volume of fire.

I had a few chances to buy Mark 1 1903s and passed on every one. I should have been wiser and bought them.
 
#17 ·
Thanks Mak. I have enjoyed all the good information and history lessons myself. I have also been keeping Google Search busy looking for history and tech info the last couple days.
 
#18 ·
While Cleaning the rifle, I went over it with a Magnifying Glass. I found several stamps on the stock. The first stamp I found was a rectangle with the Capitol Letters FJA in the rectangle. The next stamp I found was just to the rear of the trigger guard a circle with the Capital letter P in it (meaning that the rifle was re-proofed) the other stamps I could tell they were stamps but could not make out what they read as they were too faint or incomplete to read.

other than the stamps just behind the front site (R A, the Flaming Bomb, and the date 10-42) there no stamps on the metal parts of the rifle. On the Leather sling (which I believe is not original to the rifle) there is BOYT stamped. Leather Slings with Brass or Steel Adjustment Hooks were issued with the '03 and later the Leather Slings were changed to Web Slings depending on issue date and Theatre of War.
 
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#21 ·
It has a 4 groove barrel which from all the resources I have been reading would also be original to this gun. A Milled Follower. A stamped Butt Plate with the fine Checkering. no Cleaning Kit, but I can get that from Sarco fairly cheap. I also want to get the Grenade Launcher Butt Pad for it (just for firing comfort).
 
#22 ·
I also want to get the Grenade Launcher Butt Pad for it (just for firing comfort).
If the grenade launching pad's an original I'd recommend giving it a good soak in hot water before trying to stretch it over the rifle's butt plate. The older the pads are the drier and stiffer they are, and the easier they tear when being stretched. Don't ask me how I know this. :)
 
#24 ·
The Butt Pad is a repro. from Sarco. And my choice for that is just for wow factor, I can go to Cabela's and get a Plain Jane butt pad cheaper probably with no Shipping Cost.
 
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#25 ·
Wifey told me I wasn't allowed to buy any more guns (for now anyway) But that was before getting this '03. So I guess this one doesn't count as it only cost me $20 in gas. She just reminded me that I can Spend my allowance to buy her a pistol though.
 
#31 ·
She doesn't give me too much grief when I buy my powder by the pound ("Don't you have enough bullets already?") For my pistols I have enough powder, and closing in on 2,000 rounds already stock piled, Just getting started on rifle though and only have 160 rounds loaded up so far.
 
#32 ·
I have found Steves Pages and downloaded a PDF book on the 1903 that covers every single part of the rifle and also includes Mechanical Drawings of every piece as well (Including Dimensions). I also got an Army Training Manual for the use and care of the 1903. Some good info in both of them.
 
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