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Good Sig or Ruger 9mm with an external safety

3K views 27 replies 16 participants last post by  gvw3 
#1 ·
I had thought I'd give my oldest grandson a Glock 19 for college graduation, because I know he'd like to have a 9mm handgun and the 19 seems to be a very popular gun. He doesn't want to CC, but would probably have it in his truck much of the time. I think he wants it for SD and some recreational target shooting. We live in Georgia and don't have the crazy restrictions.

The other day, though, in conversation he said he wouldn't want a Glock because he'd rather have a pistol with an external safety, "probably a Sig or Ruger or maybe a Kimber, but the Kimbers are really expensive." I don't know whether that means he wouldn't consider another brand or not--guessing he would if it had enough advantages. He has no idea I'm thinking of getting him one for graduation. I don't know whether he wants the 1911 kind or something that's shaped more like a Glock. Can you tell that I know next to nothing about semi-autos? (I'm a revolver gal.)

For those who like more info before recommending something:
He doesn't own any handguns (isn't quite 21 yet), only a deer rifle and hunting bow AFAIK, but his dad has a few other rifles, shotguns, handguns. He graduated from AF BMT, but then had to get out because they discovered a medical issue that couldn't be fixed. I don't remember him mentioning what they trained with in BMT. I'd say he has at least average gun knowledge for a "Southern boy," if that matters. :)

I suppose before I buy one for him, I really need to let him choose it, although I was hoping to surprise him. I have at least a year to pick him and decide what to do, so I'm only gathering info for further thought at this point. All this rambling to ask you folks:

What are some good models in 9 mm, especially Sigs and Rugers, that have an external safety?

I'm thinking nothing huge nor tiny, just all-around convenient size but perhaps could be occasionally carried if need be. And of course, I would want something very reliable and not picky about ammo. I'm somewhat flexible on cost, but if it might be left in his truck sometimes, probably not anything super-expensive.

I understand many have some strong opinions about the pros and cons of safeties, but he's said he prefers an external safety, so those are the ones grandmom needs to learn about.

If you would, please also tell me why you like or dislike a model or brand, pros and cons, etc. Thanks so much for your suggestions and info!
 
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#2 ·
Sig Sauer's ain't cheap either but the P226 or the P229 both have the external safeties and are great shooters. I have owned one of each and they are some of those I "kick myself" for getting rid of. There are many choices like the Browning or CZ pistols, but my recommendation would be one of those Sigs.
 
#5 ·
I have a Beretta 92 and love it. I am having accuracy problems with it now and think I may have pinpointed the problem. They are good heavy duty handguns.

I also am in the market for a full sized handgun. I opened a thread on the Ruger American vs the S&W MP 2.0. I will get one but didn't get a lot of response on my thread. I think they are so new not many members have them yet. Both can be had with external safeties and are made in the USA.
 
#7 ·
I had thought I'd give my oldest grandson a Glock 19 for college graduation, because I know he'd like to have a 9mm handgun and the 19 seems to be a very popular gun. He doesn't want to CC, but would probably have it in his truck much of the time. I think he wants it for SD and some recreational target shooting. We live in Georgia and don't have the crazy restrictions.

The other day, though, in conversation he said he wouldn't want a Glock because he'd rather have a pistol with an external safety, "probably a Sig or Ruger or maybe a Kimber, but the Kimbers are really expensive." I don't know whether that means he wouldn't consider another brand or not--guessing he would if it had enough advantages. He has no idea I'm thinking of getting him one for graduation. I don't know whether he wants the 1911 kind or something that's shaped more like a Glock. Can you tell that I know next to nothing about semi-autos? (I'm a revolver gal.)

For those who like more info before recommending something:
He doesn't own any handguns (isn't quite 21 yet), only a deer rifle and hunting bow AFAIK, but his dad has a few other rifles, shotguns, handguns. He graduated from AF BMT, but then had to get out because they discovered a medical issue that couldn't be fixed. I don't remember him mentioning what they trained with in BMT. I'd say he has at least average gun knowledge for a "Southern boy," if that matters. :)

I suppose before I buy one for him, I really need to let him choose it, although I was hoping to surprise him. I have at least a year to pick him and decide what to do, so I'm only gathering info for further thought at this point. All this rambling to ask you folks:

What are some good models in 9 mm, especially Sigs and Rugers, that have an external safety?

I'm thinking nothing huge nor tiny, just all-around convenient size but perhaps could be occasionally carried if need be. And of course, I would want something very reliable and not picky about ammo. I'm somewhat flexible on cost, but if it might be left in his truck sometimes, probably not anything super-expensive.

I understand many have some strong opinions about the pros and cons of safeties, but he's said he prefers an external safety, so those are the ones grandmom needs to learn about.

If you would, please also tell me why you like or dislike a model or brand, pros and cons, etc. Thanks so much for your suggestions and info!
I am partial to my newly acquired lightweight Ruger SR1911 commander size 9mm.

It is a 9+1 and is light enough to carry easily... with 4.25" barrel

  • Capacity9+1
  • Slide MaterialStainless Steel
  • Barrel Length4.25"
  • Grip FrameGray Anodized Aluminum *
  • Grip PanelsBlack Rubberized
  • Model TypeLightweight Commander-Style
  • Slide FinishLow-Glare Stainless
  • Width1.34"
  • SightsDrift Adjustable Novak® 3-Dot
  • Weight29.3 oz.
  • Overall Length7.75"
  • Height5.45"
  • Grooves6
  • Twist1:10" RH
 
#10 ·
Thanks for all these suggestions! I've started looking at the ones in the first reply but got distracted with hickok45. From what I saw about the P226 & P229, they have a decocker but not a safety (or the ones I saw, anyway.) Is this correct? I think he wants the kind of safety that prevents the gun from firing if the trigger is accidentally snagged by something.

I'm finding out there is a lot to learn about the different kinds.

In looking at those two, I also ran across the P320, which supposedly is available with a thumb safety but usually doesn't have it. It comes in four sizes. For some reason, I have it in my head he'd like something about the size of the Glock 19, a "compact." The P320 is striker fired unlike the other two Sigs. I definitely must do some snooping to find out what type of pistol my grandson wants.

Gvw3, I figured I would have to spend around $600, but I can be somewhat flexible if needed. Since he mentioned having it in his truck, it probably should not be a super-expensive one in case someone broke into the truck.

I ran out of checking time today, but will look at the rest of the suggestions asap. Please keep them coming; thanks!
 
#11 ·
#12 ·
To expand a bit on the Ruger offerings, in their SR series of pistols they have what is called the 9E. It's a lower cost variant of the SR 9, the differences between it and the SR 9 are minor. The biggest difference is the cost factor, it retails for about $100 less than the SR 9. Around my area I've seen several vendors having them on sale for less than $300.00.
 
#14 ·
If you would, please also tell me why you like or dislike a model or brand, pros and cons, etc. Thanks so much for your suggestions and info!
A gift of a gun is very appreciated, and something that will last his lifetime. Although if the gun you pick out and wrap up in a bow for the surprise may not be the best fit for him. The ol cliché get the one that fells good in your hand, "Take him shopping for it". You cannot go wrong with any major brand names mentioned above.
 
#16 ·
All good advice, guys. Thanks! I've looked at almost all of the suggestions and learned a lot, and I'm not through yet. I knew a little about Glocks and next to nothing about all the other brands and types. I'll have enough info after this to have a more detailed conversation about pistols with my grandson.

One I'm really liking, and might have to try for myself if I thought I could rack the slide, is the Sig 320 compact. (This from a dyed in the wool revolver girl!) It's my understanding the Army recently chose the full size model. I've not run across any really negative reviews so far. Any thoughts on that one? I also like the Ruger SR that was mentioned. The list prices aren't too far apart on those.

The only way I might try to surprise him, though, is if I can find out what he actually wants. He and I love to talk guns, and I have more than a year to find out. I will try to maneuver our conversations around to your suggestions and my discovery of the 320, and see if he's tried any of them.

As for just sitting in the truck, that might not be exactly it. The conversation we had was about him getting his concealed carry card when he turns 21 this month, which he plans to do. He remarked that he didn't think he wanted to carry, but might take a handgun in his truck sometimes. I didn't pursue that line of thought. I was more interested in making myself remember "Sig or Ruger, Kimber really expensive" after he said he didn't think he wanted a Glock because he'd want a manual safety.

As for price, whether a surprise or a go-shopping, this would be his college graduation present, so I don't want to go too cheap on it. OTOH, as it will probably be his only (and multi-purpose) handgun for awhile, a super-expensive model probably wouldn't be the best choice at first. I was thinking around $600 or so as a ballpark figure, and it looks like there are some good choices in that price range.

Again, thanks, and tell me more!
 
#18 ·
I have to chime in despite the excellent advice already given here. While all three brands you mentioned are excellent, Sig is somewhat better in design and quality, in my not-very-humble opinion. And you mentioned one model in particular, the P320, which I just got my hands on last week. It's a work of art, while remaining extremely durable. I can easily see why the Army selected it. It lacks an external safety, which I hate, and it doesn't have an external hammer, which I also hate, but I find myself inexplicably drawn to this gun. We have one in the cabinet at work, and I'm really tempted to buy it, even though I have several 9mm pistols.

Since you have some time before he graduates, keep an eye on this one. Right now it's only available in 9mm, .357Sig and .40S&W, but it is expected to be offered in .45 ACP later this year. It's extreme modularity is a huge benefit, as well. He can start with a 9 mm, and with the purchase of a few items, change it to any other caliber offered. The grip itself is available in different sizes to fit different hands, so this is one he's going to have to hold himself to make the best selection.

The lack of a safety is not a major issue, since the gun has a number of safety features designed into it. The striker cannot release unless the trigger is pulled, and the trigger isn't even connected unless the chamber is fully closed (in battery, as they say). Another safety is one I didn't realize until I did some research - you can't take it apart unless the magazine is removed, and it can't fire unless the magazine is installed. How many times have you heard of someone having a gun accident while cleaning an "unloaded" gun? Can't happen with this one.

It's definitely worth your time to research this one closely!
 
#19 ·
R54, the 320 is supposed to be available with or without a manual safety. Sig's website and the owner's manual for the 320 both say that. Could a gun store order one with a safety if they didn't have it in stock, if he decided on that one? He especially wants a manual safety, and if it were for me, so would I. Thanks for all the additional info on that model. I'm really liking it; not that he necessarily will. My problem is that I don't have the hand strength to rack slides safely, no matter what technique. That's with a Glock 19 (can very unsafely wrestle that one part of the time, unloaded of course) and 26 (no way). In any case, I want to tell him about the 320.

What are the reasons for wanting an external hammer? As I've said, I know next to nothing about any of these semi's except for a little about Glocks. I was surprised to learn that some types have a heavier first trigger pull and then lighter ones. I don't even know what type of pistol he has in mind. I guess I had the striker fired, Glock type in mind originally.

JWD, I did look at some of the Berettas but haven't yet looked at video reviews of them. Beretta wasn't one of the brands he mentioned, but that doesn't necessarily rule them out. I want to learn more about them. Thanks!
 
#21 ·
Keep in mind that this gun is fairly new, and not all options are currently available. We had a heck of a time finding a distributor that had one in stock, and we jumped on what we could get. Within a few months, I expect all of the options to be readily available, but at the same time, the Army is planning to buy a few hundred thousand of them, so demand might be a bit strong. Nonetheless, I think it's a gun that is very worthy of consideration, even though I'm a diehard Browning fan. If you can get one with an external safety, it's a no-brainer.

For yourself, a lot of ladies have trouble racking the slide. In the movies you see guys grasping the slide from the back end with thumb and forefinger, but in the real world, some of these guns have really strong recoil springs, and that just doesn't work. What I teach to the ladies is an alternative method that takes strength in muscles that most of us are used to using. Stand sideways to the range and hold the gun across the chest, pointed down-range. Grasp the slide with the support hand using the thumb on the left side, and the rest of your fingers on the right side. Holding the slide rigid, use your right hand to push the grip/frame to your left to cock the gun. With an empty magazine installed, most pistols will lock open to show that the chamber is clear and the gun is safe. Most of the ladies I've worked with found this method much easier than trying to pull back on the slide from any position.

As for the hammer issue, I feel safer when I have a hammer I can grab and lower slowly to make a gun safe. It's a silly thing, but I'm an old fart and I got a lot of my ideas from my Dad, who would be an even older fart if he was still around. I'm an engineer, and I have trouble trusting any mechanism that 1) I didn't design and 2) I can't see. All mechanical or electronic devices can fail - that's a fact we can't avoid. New designs with striker-fired mechanisms and all manner of built-in safety devices are probably as safe as anything manmade can be, but I still like to see that darned hammer down when I want to be safe. The exact same thing can be said about having an external safety; it probably provides more peace of mind than any actual margin of safety.
 
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#22 · (Edited)
The SIG 226, 229, 239, and 2022 (DA/SA) pistols all have a hammer drop, not an external safety. After the hammer is dropped, the lever returns to the top, and a DA trigger pull will raise the hammer, and then disengage the sear, releasing the hammer, firing the gun. They depend on a long DA trigger pull to be safe. Their SA 938 does have a safety not a hammer drop. Most 2nd and 3rd gen. S&W semis have external hammer drop safeties. They are available on the used market. I believe the Beretta 92, Browning Hi-Power, P-38, CZ-75 and others have hammer drop safeties also, but have no actual experience with them. An external safety will not allow the hammer to raise with the trigger pull or will block the firing pin.
 
#23 ·
Thanks, all. I had to google Tanfoglio, and then the first two links I tried were in Italian, LOL.

I've tried that method to rack the slides, and my fingers are not strong enough to safely do it. Maybe I can't get a strong enough grip on the slide with my left hand? I don't think pushing with my right hand is the problem. But I have so much trouble that I'd be afraid I'd accidentally fire the pistol while I was wrestling with it if it were loaded.

I need to find out what type of pistol he's most interested in. I didn't realize there were several totally different kinds. This is an enjoyable learning experience for me!
 
#24 ·
Thanks, all. I had to google Tanfoglio, and then the first two links I tried were in Italian, LOL.

I've tried that method to rack the slides, and my fingers are not strong enough to safely do it. Maybe I can't get a strong enough grip on the slide with my left hand? I don't think pushing with my right hand is the problem. But I have so much trouble that I'd be afraid I'd accidentally fire the pistol while I was wrestling with it if it were loaded.

I need to find out what type of pistol he's most interested in. I didn't realize there were several totally different kinds. This is an enjoyable learning experience for me!
 
#25 ·
Update on the grandson, and then a chance for some of you to say, "I told you so."

Grandson and I went window shopping the other day and looked at many semi-autos, including quite a few Sigs including the P320. The store wasn't busy at all, and the guy behind the counter was very helpful; it's obvious he enjoys his job. I hope his comments didn't unduly influence my grandson, but he seemed knowledgeable enough. After handling quite a few (and I have a sneaking suspicion, too much consideration of grandmom's bank account), he's about decided on an M&P 9 Compact, the model with a thumb safety, which he wants and is what they had in the store. This was not one we had even discussed, nor one I'd read very much about because of his earlier comments. I sort of tried to steer him toward the Sigs, but he likes the M&P and so do I. After reading and watching video reviews since then, it seems a good choice especially for his first one. The gun store guy said he thought they might have a P320 with the safety several months from now, but I seemed to be the one who liked that one. And, low and behold, I actually racked the slide on it, just out of the blue!

Which brings me to the "I told you so" opportunity for y'all. After he left my house, I pulled out the Glock 19 and 26 so he could look at them next time he's here, and for some reason I cannot fathom, I could magically rack those slides, too. Not that any of them are easy, mind you, but I can do it although it's not pretty. Last year I tried for weeks and could not budge the 26, and could barely and dangerously wrestle the 19 even after watching every YouTube video ever made on the topic. I even had a friend take it home to be sure nothing was wrong with it. I have no idea what has happened; I'm giving the P320 credit, LOL.

I'm still not sure I have any business racking a slide with rounds in the gun, but I'm just glad I can (more or less) do it. Who knows how long that will last?

We of course have not made a purchase yet. However, I'm leaning toward letting it be a special "21st birthday" gift instead of waiting til graduation next year. He's a great kid who works hard and is by and large putting himself through college. (Plus, I want to shoot the thing, too!)

Anything super-important (not just personal preference, of which there are MANY!) that we should consider before going with the M&P 9C? I saw today that the full-size has a 2.0 version which most seem to think has some improvements, but it's my understanding there is no 2.0 compact. Is this correct?

I'm going to try to resist researching to the n-th degree, which I tend to do, and leave his decision alone, unless there's something we really need to know. ??

Thanks again for all the earlier suggestions. Obviously, I'm glad I didn't go with the "surprise" scenario on this!
 
#27 ·
Thanks, Kweeksdraw. Yes, the Force is with me and I'm wearing the rails out at present, LOL, or at least wearing my arms out.

For any others who might be concerned about racking slides, I don't know how much is just me or how much is simply each particular firearm's quirks, but FWIW the 19 is still much easier for me to rack than the smaller 26. Both are Gen 4. I can't wait to try grandson's M&P9c when he gets it.
 
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