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1941 Remington Model-720 and Winchester M-70

5K views 15 replies 7 participants last post by  Crickledee 
#1 ·
Howdy,
I'm researching a couple of interesting rifles. The first in a Winchester Model 70 in .30 GOV'T.'06. It seems this rifle, made in 1941, is one of 373 ordered by the USMC and shipped in May 1942. Due to condition and the Lyman sights, I believe this was used by the USMC shooting team.
The second rifle is a Remington Model 720 .30-06 for which I have the original box (with unused original sling), all the commercial paperwork and a "trophy" receipt showing to whom it was awarded and for what competition. My research shows that the "vast majority" of these rifles are the "S" model with a 24" barrel. However, my example is an "A" model with a 22" barrel. Though this is clearly a "trophy" rifle, the floor plate is not engraved with "Secretary of the Navy Trophy".
Any guesses as to the value and would there be a premium on the less common 22" "A" version? With 2,427 manufactured and only 1,000 delivered to the Navy, I suppose they're all "uncommon".

 
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#5 · (Edited)
The problem is that they are both very specialized and have unique characteristics.

I can't speak about the Remington but
I used to dabble in collecting, buying and selling in pre 64 Model 70's.

I've heard of the 373 1941 USMC rifles of course, but the ones I've seen were not in original condition or their authenticity was very suspicious. Many (some people think most) of the originals were rebuilt, re-barreled, re-blued, restocked by the USMC Armory. Word is that some of those older rifles went to Viet Nam, and many were lost. Reports are that many of the rifles that were originally at Camp Pendleton disappeared and are unaccounted for. Some were given away as trophies, some were rebuilt into specialized target guns.

I have never actually seen one in original condition, or heard of one being sold in my area (Northern CA and Western Nevada). If yours is one of the original 373 and has not been rebuilt or altered, you have a rare gun indeed. Value is difficult to estimate, and may only be determined at auction.

By the way, many of the "military" model 70's I've seen over the years were fakes. I suggest that you search out a verified expert and have the gun authenticated and appraised.

I sold my last collectable Model 70 years ago, and haven't kept up on values.
Good luck.
 
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#6 ·
Maybe forty years ago we had a citizen who appeared with a 720. He insisted having that rifle fitted with a side mount. At that time the rifle was considered very uncommon. We wanted no part of this desecration. Recently, a friend picked up what may be the same 720-with side mount-at a local gun show. Spoke about this Bubba attack to the gunsmith who did our work. He shared that the Tennessee Highway Patrol had been issued some 720's in the day.
 
#8 · (Edited)
Bert,
That's certainly a fair question. First allow me to point out that the 373 (not 343) USMC Model 70's are not alleged, they are reasonably known and have been written about in several publications.
According to an American Rifleman story by Bruce Canfield March 21, 2011 two members of the U.S. Marine Corps Equipment Board wrote a report in 1941 regarding potential USMC sniper rifles. The report concluded that the best rifle/scope combination was the Winchester Model 70 topped with an 8X Unertl target scope.
Before any official action was taken, the Marine Corps ordered 373 Model 70s chambered in .30-'06 Sprg. According to Winchester documents, these rifles were shipped to the Marine Corps on May 29, 1942. Serial numbers were in the approximate 41,000 to 50,000 range, and the rifles had 24-inch sporter barrels with leaf sights, checkered stocks with steel buttplates, 1-inch sling swivels and leather slings. Basically an off-the-rack M-70 sporter.
As the WACA Historian, I'm sure you know this but it may be of interest to others.

With regards to my Model 70, the serial number 48261 falls in the known range
of the USMC rifles. Additionally #48261 is configured as listed in the Winchester documents. The stock carries the Rock Island Arsenal "RIA" and the FK3 stamp of Frank Krack who was the Assistant Foreman of the Inspection Division at Rock Island Arsenal from September 17, 1941 until he retired on July 19th, 1946. With no complete list of serial numbers sold to the Marines I suppose there could be another reason for #48261 to have the RIA FK3 mark but I can't think of one and I've found no other examples.
 
#9 · (Edited)
Bert,
That's certainly a fair question. First allow me to point out that the 373 (not 343) USMC Model 70's are not alleged, they are reasonably known and have been written about in several publications.
According to an American Rifleman story by Bruce Canfield March 21, 2011 two members of the U.S. Marine Corps Equipment Board wrote a report in 1941 regarding potential USMC sniper rifles. The report concluded that the best rifle/scope combination was the Winchester Model 70 topped with an 8X Unertl target scope.
Before any official action was taken, the Marine Corps ordered 373 Model 70s chambered in .30-'06 Sprg. According to Winchester documents, these rifles were shipped to the Marine Corps on May 29, 1942. Serial numbers were in the approximate 41,000 to 50,000 range, and the rifles had 24-inch sporter barrels with leaf sights, checkered stocks with steel buttplates, 1-inch sling swivels and leather slings. Basically an off-the-rack M-70 sporter.
As the WACA Historian, I'm sure you know this but it may be of interest to others.

With regards to my Model 70, the serial number 48261 falls in the known range
of the USMC rifles. Additionally #48261 is configured as listed in the Winchester documents. The stock carries the Rock Island Arsenal "RIA" and the FK3 stamp of Frank Krack who was the Assistant Foreman of the Inspection Division at Rock Island Arsenal from September 17, 1941 until he retired on July 19th, 1946. With no complete list of serial numbers sold to the Marines I suppose there could be another reason for #48261 to have the RIA FK3 mark but I can't think of one and I've found no other examples.
Rick,

Per the original Winchester serialization records (in the vaults at the Buffalo Bill Historical Center of the West, a.k.a. the Cody Firearms Museum), Model 70 serial number 49400 was the last receiver manufactured on May 28th, 1942. Your Model 70 receiver went through the Polishing Room in mid April of 1942, and it would have been fully assembled by early May 1942, so it is certainly possible that it could have been in the last batch of the (373) that were manufactured and shipped to the USMC on May 29th, 1942. Based on Winchester's typical production time, I would adjust the "approximate" serial number range for the (373) rifles to be in the 41,000 - 49,225 range (serial 49225 was the last receiver serialized and polished on May 20th, 1942).

Bert H.
WACA Historian
 
#12 ·
Bert,
Thanks so much for looking at the books at Cody. I seem to remember that there are no records extant that show where a particular Model 70 was shipped. Do you think a letter from the Cody Firearms Museum would have any more info?
For what it's worth, this rifle has been in the collection of a late friend for over forty years.
Thanks again.
 
#14 ·
Found this old post and hoping you can help me. I have an early 720 s/n 40325 that I know is missing some parts. I have a schematic but we are still unclear on a couple details and not sure if we have the correct trigger guard. I have been unable to find this type of information on the Internet, if you still have your 720 would you mind posting or sending me photos of the under side of your trigger guard and the parts with the bottom magazine cover removed? The trigger and magazine assembly area is what I need disassembled photos of.
 
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