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Recommendations for an old, new, old guy...

3K views 52 replies 17 participants last post by  Ksman75 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
HI all!

Just want some feedback on my (pending) setup. Started reloading when I was 21, 1977. Loaded .357/.38, 30-30 and 12ga. Reloaded for the next 10 years, but not in bulk. Was a casual plinker, never more than a hundred or so at a time. Got out of shooting in 1987, and like a dummy, sold my stuff. In 2000, I bought a Glock 22 and got a Glock 20 and a Taurus .357 in a trade with a friend for some work I did for him.

I plan on reloading for the Glocks mainly. The .357 is the wife's, and she doesn't shoot enough to justify another set of dies at the moment.

So what I'm aiming for, is economy. I won't be loading enough to justify a progressing press, and don't want to mess with changing and resetting dies when switching calibers, so I'm looking at a Lee turret press with either a 3 or 4 die set, and that's my sticking point. Do I want to go 3 die or 4 die? To start, I'll only be loading 10mm. Im tired of it being a paperweight, lol.

I know the pros and cons of each, just waffling on which way I want to go. When I was reloading before, I had been using Lee products, and was/am more than satisfied with them, so that's not an issue.

Any thoughts on the dies?

As this is still in the planning stages, I would like your thoughts on bullet weights as well. I've been buying 180 grain factory loads, and will probably stick with the 180 grain for reloading, but would like some input on 165 and 200 grain...

Thanks!
 
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#2 · (Edited)
The Lee Classic Turret press will fit your needs perfectly. It's a 4 hole press, so you can set up a powder check die or a seperate crimp die. And extra tool heads are cheap, so you can leave dies set up and change out the heads. The new Lee Auto Drum powder measures are great and inexpensive so you can leave one in each tool head.
 
#4 · (Edited by Moderator)
Yeah, that's the one I'm looking at. In days of old, I had their single stage, and even though setup isn't that complicated, I'm too old for that now, lol.

Funny, the only thing I didn't get rid of is my RCBS balance scale. Don't ask my why. But it's one less thing I'll have to buy. I'm definitely going to get a powder measure though, just haven't researched them yet. Using the little powder scoop that comes with the dies works, but like I said, I'm too old for that now:(. It's a real b**** being 16 stuck in a 60 year old body!

Thanks for the input, slayer and howlnmad!
 
#7 ·
On 10mm reloads:

I bought a new Colt Delta Elite 10mm when they were introduced in the 1980's. I was drawn (perhaps stupidly) by the ballistics of a 200 grain bullet going 1200 FPS as per the Norma advertising. At the time reloading data was nonexistent which left me to experiment (Very Bad idea as it turned out). After one over load spit the primer out with the empty, I stopped guessing and finally got some reasonable reloading data. I settled on Accurate Arms #7 at 10.6 grains with Hornady 200 gr TCFMJ bullet. The results was a heavy recoiling (twisting in the hand recoil) and 1183FPS. It was not fun to shoot.

After several years I moved to a much lighter load with recoil in line with typical regular 45ACP loads. This time it was 175 gr cast SWC and 5.5 grs of W231 for 1002 FPS. This a fun load to shoot.

Looking at recent 10mm data from several sources I think testers have down graded the max loads to some degree. The above loads MUST be compared to recent reloading manuals before attempting to use them or any load close to them.

In another project I bought a carbine conversion for my Delta Elite. It uses the Delta Elite frame and a blowback operated 10mm upper to convert the gun to a carbine.

http://mechtechsys.com/1911-carbine-conversion/

For this I ended up after some load development (critical because it is blow back operated) using 180 gr Rainier plated bullets and 11.4 grs of AA #7. I have not choreographed this load but the manual say it is 1150 FPS in a 5 inch handgun. It has to much more than that in the long barreled carbine.

Great fun with 10mm!

LDBennett
 
#8 · (Edited)
You are "too old" at 60 o_O and are getting back in to reloading. The thing I advise kids like you;) who are just going to load a few calibers is this:

Stay away from those dippers. If you must use a dipper - get yourself a powder trickler, then use a dipper to get 'most' of the charge in the pan, then trickle up to your load. It is slow - but it works. (Better yet - get an RCBS Uniflow powder measurer/with a stand and toss the dipper).

Make or buy cartridge loading blocks. For pistol calibers you can use a block of 1X6X8 or 2X6X8 wood, then mark the block for 50 (space the marks so they are about 3/4" apart), then drill holes with a Forstner Bit large enough for the case heads to fit into about 1/2" deep). That way you can process your cases - they won't tip over - and you can verify charged cases for correct charges at a glance. Keeps you organized, too. Factory case holders are sloppy fit usually.

Just my lowly opinion, but for the low volume of shooting you will do - a turret press is over-kill. They are nice, but you would be well served with a single stage press. As far as changing calibers being a PITA, if you get dies with REAL locking rings (unlike Lee's dies), once you set them up they stay adjusted. Screw 'em in - then unscrew them. Simple. You can have those dies in and out in seconds.

You already have the scale. Get a good reloading manual (or two). I don't reload .40 S&W, but I'm guessing it will be a standard 4 die set like the .38/.357 Mag. If it were me - I'd get the manuals first, then figure out a good powder so you can use it in both calibers. Guys here can suggest a good powder useable for both calibers.

Start off with the "Suggested Starting Load" and work your way up. Go slow until you find your best load that performs well enough for you and cycles the action reliably.
 
#9 ·
Welcome back..

Well you've gotten a lot of good advice so I'll just toss my dos centavos in the ring. Yep for you needs/wants a Lee turret is a good choice, but I'd say stay away from Lee's "Factory Crimp Dies". You will be much better of in the long run if you relearn how to reload without the need of a "post seating and crimping sizing die". If a round is too big and won't chamber, find out why and fix it...

.(I was a So. CA resident for 62 years living just north of OC, San Pedro, and I feel for you brother).
 
#11 ·
I'm a low volume loader also, never load more than maybe 100 at a time. Been using single stage all my life and it's not a problem for me. Curious about something with the Lee turret press. Does the part holding the dies move or the part with the case? Read somewhere that one of those turret press's could be run like a single stage press, is this it?
Yep, you can remove the quarter inch shaft from the Lee and it now becomes a turret that turns by hand. Works like a Single stage, but you can swap dies instantly to the next phase instead of unscrewing and re-screwing dies in and out. They will be in the Die head.
 
#12 ·
I Use Lee dies for my pistol ammo. As stated you don't really need the FCD for Straight wall Cases, the seating die will provide the same crimp as the FCD. I bought the 4 die set for 45acp, and regret spending the extra $10 over the 3 die set as I have never used the FCD.
 
#18 · (Edited by Moderator)
I'm a low volume loader also, never load more than maybe 100 at a time. Been using single stage all my life and it's not a problem for me. Curious about something with the Lee turret press. Does the part holding the dies move or the part with the case? Read somewhere that one of those turret press's could be run like a single stage press, is this it?
From my research, they have one model that can be run as a single stage, and another with an auto-index. Not sure if the auto-index is selective or not. On both, it's the turret that rotates, the base is stationary.

I Use Lee dies for my pistol ammo. As stated you don't really need the FCD for Straight wall Cases, the seating die will provide the same crimp as the FCD. I bought the 4 die set for 45acp, and regret spending the extra $10 over the 3 die set as I have never used the FCD.
Yeah, from the advice I've been receiving, and more research, I'm leaning towards a Hornady 3-die set.
 
#13 ·
I'm a low volume loader also, never load more than maybe 100 at a time. Been using single stage all my life and it's not a problem for me. Curious about something with the Lee turret press. Does the part holding the dies move or the part with the case? Read somewhere that one of those turret press's could be run like a single stage press, is this it?
The head turns, not the shell holder. Yup, you can use it as an auto advancing turret, a manual advancing turret or a single stage.
 
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#14 ·
You are "too old" at 60 o_O and are getting back in to reloading. The thing I advise kids like you;) who are just going to load a few calibers is this:

Stay away from those dippers. If you must use a dipper - get yourself a powder trickler, then use a dipper to get 'most' of the charge in the pan, then trickle up to your load. It is slow - but it works. (Better yet - get an RCBS Uniflow powder measurer/with a stand and toss the dipper).

Make or buy cartridge loading blocks. For pistol calibers you can use a block of 1X6X8 or 2X6X8 wood, then mark the block for 50 (space the marks so they are about 3/4" apart), then drill holes with a Forstner Bit large enough for the case heads to fit into about 1/2" deep). That way you can process your cases - they won't tip over - and you can verify charged cases for correct charges at a glance. Keeps you organized, too. Factory case holders are sloppy fit usually.

Just my lowly opinion, but for the low volume of shooting you will do - a turret press is over-kill. They are nice, but you would be well served with a single stage press. As far as changing calibers being a PITA, if you get dies with REAL locking rings (unlike Lee's dies), once you set them up they stay adjusted. Screw 'em in - then unscrew them. Simple. You can have those dies in and out in seconds.

You already have the scale. Get a good reloading manual (or two). I don't reload .40 S&W, but I'm guessing it will be a standard 4 die set like the .38/.357 Mag. If it were me - I'd get the manuals first, then figure out a good powder so you can use it in both calibers. Guys here can suggest a good powder useable for both calibers.

Start off with the "Suggested Starting Load" and work your way up. Go slow until you find your best load that performs well enough for you and cycles the action reliably.
Jim, thanks for the input. I'm planning on only loading light to medium loads. Nothing on the hot side. No dippers! Haven't done any real research yet, on powder measures, but they are definitely on my list. So far, the only thing I have bought is the Hornady 10th Edition.

Yipee! My 10th Edition just came in! Had to take an hour off, to give it a quick once over!!!

I've always been partial to Lee, but prices on dies being so competitive, I'm still looking. The more I think about it, I may reconsider a single stage press. I also like your suggestion for the lock ring dies. That pretty much puts Lee out of the running, but what the heck <Grin>.

I've also been a fan of Hercules, oops, Alliant, with Blue Dot in mind. This isn't fixed either, but seems to be a good starting point, since I'm familiar with their products. When I reloaded before, it was IMR 3031 for my 30-30, and Bullseye, Blue Dot, Red Dot, or Unique for my .357 and 12ga.
 
#19 ·
I've also been a fan of Hercules, oops, Alliant, with Blue Dot in mind. This isn't fixed either, but seems to be a good starting point, since I'm familiar with their products. When I reloaded before, it was IMR 3031 for my 30-30, and Bullseye, Blue Dot, Red Dot, or Unique for my .357 and 12ga.
I used Blue Dot a long time ago (back in the 70s?), and it worked well for me. I tried Blue Dot a few years back and it seemed the formula had changed - the loads that used to work well almost seemed like they were too hot.

Bullseye has always been a favorite of mine, but I do a lot of loading with calibers like .380, 9mm, .38 Spec, .44 Spec and Mag, .45ACP and .45 Colt - and in both I shoot cast and jacketed bullets. That was when I switched over to Unique and have been using it for decades to use in all of those calibers with cast and copper bullets. That was why I suggested that you decide what velocity/bullet type you plan on - and see if there are cross-over powders for both calibers and bullet types.

My home town is Redondo Beach, but I've lived several places in the LA area. The last was in Buena Park when my last duty assignment was at Los Alamitos NAS. That wasn't a bad place, but that WAS 30+ years ago.
 
#15 ·
On 10mm reloads:

I bought a new Colt Delta Elite 10mm when they were introduced in the 1980's. I was drawn (perhaps stupidly) by the ballistics of a 200 grain bullet going 1200 FPS as per the Norma advertising. At the time reloading data was nonexistent which left me to experiment (Very Bad idea as it turned out). After one over load spit the primer out with the empty, I stopped guessing and finally got some reasonable reloading data. I settled on Accurate Arms #7 at 10.6 grains with Hornady 200 gr TCFMJ bullet. The results was a heavy recoiling (twisting in the hand recoil) and 1183FPS. It was not fun to shoot.

After several years I moved to a much lighter load with recoil in line with typical regular 45ACP loads. This time it was 175 gr cast SWC and 5.5 grs of W231 for 1002 FPS. This a fun load to shoot.

Looking at recent 10mm data from several sources I think testers have down graded the max loads to some degree. The above loads MUST be compared to recent reloading manuals before attempting to use them or any load close to them.

In another project I bought a carbine conversion for my Delta Elite. It uses the Delta Elite frame and a blowback operated 10mm upper to convert the gun to a carbine.

http://mechtechsys.com/1911-carbine-conversion/

For this I ended up after some load development (critical because it is blow back operated) using 180 gr Rainier plated bullets and 11.4 grs of AA #7. I have not choreographed this load but the manual say it is 1150 FPS in a 5 inch handgun. It has to much more than that in the long barreled carbine.

Great fun with 10mm!

LDBennett
LD, thanks for the input! To start out, I'll be loading for my 10mm, probably using Blue Dot and 180g bullets at 1050-1150 fps with FMJ or around 1050 for plated. I'm not looking to "kick ass and take names, just to have fun on a budget, and it seems I can a little more per pound with the Blue Dot.
 
#16 · (Edited)
WOW! The technical business is so very alarming for someone of my caliber
who can't transfer one catsup bottle contents into another......I pause for a moment
and know you are wondering, "what in the hell is the Old Chief talking about
and why catsup..."? Of course, Gentlemen....and you ladies also if your are
reading this tripe....marvel isn't even the colloquial expression needed to
describe my wonderment...In a way I'd like to join in and express in brash
terms, "I kin do that there...just give me that lead ladle...the same one as
I once used pouring cast iron bell and spigot plumbing joints...I'll make
you some bullets that are sure to wobble and ricochet"! Okay, I tried to
smart mouth...Good Night Mrs. Calabash, where ever you are! Chief
 
#17 ·
Welcome back..

Well you've gotten a lot of good advice so I'll just toss my dos centavos in the ring. Yep for you needs/wants a Lee turret is a good choice, but I'd say stay away from Lee's "Factory Crimp Dies". You will be much better of in the long run if you relearn how to reload without the need of a "post seating and crimping sizing die". If a round is too big and won't chamber, find out why and fix it...

.(I was a So. CA resident for 62 years living just north of OC, San Pedro, and I feel for you brother).
Yeah, I'm in Anaheim, and the wife is adamant, refusing to move out of this cesspool of elitist, fascists, progressive,...1, 2, 3, 4, 5...

I'm starting to lean towards Hornady dies, but still out. Also re-thinking a single stage press rather than a turret. That's still up in the air too.
 
#21 ·
The Lee die lock ring solution, take the o-ring out and lock it down. I still think that you would be better served with the Classic Cast Turret press.
If you're getting back into reloading, you're not going to stop with just 1 caliber. You won't.
 
#24 ·
The Lee die lock ring solution, take the o-ring out and lock it down. I still think that you would be better served with the Classic Cast Turret press.
If you're getting back into reloading, you're not going to stop with just 1 caliber. You won't.
Subject to change, I'm starting to favor the Hornady, RCBS or Lyman 3 die set, over the Lees. And you're right, I won't be loading just one caliber. The catch is I will be loading the same diameters. I only own 3 guns, 10mm, .40, and .357, so basically I'll be reloading 2 calibers. I know it's oversimplified, but I view the .40/10mm in the same light as most people see the .38/.357. Then there is idea of getting a 9mm barrel conversion :cool:
 
#22 ·
I leave one of the Quick Change rings installed in my Lee Single Stage press. I put Hornady Split Lockrings on my Dies set the dies properly then tighten the Hornady Split lock ring, when I need to change to the next Die I unscrew the die, install the next die. After initial set up, it is quick to change dies for the next step. I do the same thing on my RCBS Press.
 
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#25 ·
I bought a Lee Turret press somewhere around 1998 or so, As I was setting it up the turret rotated a couple times when I didn't want it to so I disabled the auto index feature (removed the square rod). I continued to use the press by hand indexing and much preferred it that way, up until I got my Co-Ax just 6 months ago. Since I had no need for a semi-progressive press, which didn't fit my reloading style, the hand indexing worked quite well for me...
 
#28 ·
From a lifelong machinist/mechanic's view, the Lee lock rings, with the o-ring work quite well. Lock rings really don't need to be cranked down with a 12 inch wrench plus a 36" cheater bar to stop die movement. I have purchased used dies (but no longer) and two sets I bought off ebay were previously owned by a gorilla that seemed to think lock rings and set screws needed to be as tight as humanly possible. It took me several hours to repair the threads and replace lock rings and set screws because "Primitive Pete" used a 24" pipe wrench and/or vice grips on the dies. It just ain't necessary...
 
#43 ·
Same here George.
 
#31 ·
Thank you, everyone! I've decided on going with the Lee Classic Turret Press, Lee 10mm/.40 cal. 3 die set, the Lee Auto-Drum powder Measure, and the Lee Safety Primer Feed.

If the lock rings become a problem, the I can always replace them with a set screw lock ring later. I decided on the 3 die set in 10mm/.40 cal, because I'll be loading for my G20 and G22, therefore requiring adjustments on the dies anyway, and making the lock rings a lower priority, vs having a set of dies for each caliber.

I'm going to start with Blue Dot powder and 180g FMJ bullets. I'm still undecided on new or once fired brass, but leaning toward new, until I can get a tumbler, case trimmer, etc.

Again, thanks for all the input! It really has helped in my decisions.

- tony -
 
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