Since both .45acp and 9mm brass shrink when fired,does the pressure vary significantly when the bullet is set to saami specs? Oal.
The specs I refer to are from the Lee modern reloading manual.I don't follow the original question. The bullet to WHAT SAAMI spec?
For the bullet (that would cover a range of about 0.006" in diameter) and not much of anything else is covered by SAAMI or for the CARTRIDGE (and not the bullet)?
If the cartridge, then, if the cartridge meets SAAMI specs and is fired in a SAAMI-compliant chamber, any problem is not with the cartridge but with the load used.
All I know after 40 years is that, for every bullet I have loaded, I loaded either using the starting load for a lead bullet or the start load for a jacketed bullet and that has always worked, no matter WHAT COL I had to use.
Seems to me that almost all these questions are really attempts to "formularize" reloading and AVOID the simple safety task of starting at the start load.
1) find the COL range, using inert dummy rounds, that feed and chamber
2) Using a COL in that range, start at the start load (I prefer to load long for accuracy). If loading for multiple guns, check the inert dummy rounds in all your guns.
3) When possible, check multiple sources and start at the lowest start load. This can be critical as all components have an effect, including lot number of powder, and you have no idea how your mix compares to the mix of components in any manual.
This has worked for well over 125 years.
I'm currently loading .45acp and 9mm. New to 9's...wife just bought one. I use the Lee manual and haven't had any problems with their recipes and specs. The question about pressure changing with different case lengths was just theoretical and what I was thinking about was that if I trim all my cases to an equal length, within specs,it would produce a more uniform and consistent round since the volume would be the same with each round,hence same pressure,same charge. It was just a thought. Another thought... does anyone have any experience with the fairly new hodgdon CFE? The reviews look good, so I got a pound. Recipes leave a few blanks and since it is new, it's not listed in my manual. Wanting to load some plated fmj round nose 115 bullets,but the only recipe I have found is for the GDHP's. Probably will call hodgdon. Just wanting some cheep stuff for the range. I double check myself on everything B4 I load. Seems that the same 115gr bullet would use the same charge,but I'll call hodgdon to make sure. The powder was on sale.So, the cartridge?
Thanks.
If you want to see the SAAMI specs, look up
SAAMI Z299.3 - 2015 205, or newer.
I'm just loading 230 gr fmj's for range use. Thanks for the advice on case lengths. I have found that very seldom I am able to get the pistol cases back to factory lengths. I can get them close with multiple trips through the resizer,but rarely can stretch them out enough to get factory lengths.>Recipes leave a few blanks and since it is new, it's not listed in my manual. Wanting to load some plated fmj round nose 115 bullets,but the only recipe I have found is for the GDHP's.
GoldDots are plated.
Given that, you don't need specific load data for a bullet, just load data for that type of bullet.
Common bullets types that will have different loading data are:
1) jacketed
2) cast/swaged lead and plated
3) frangible
4) monolithic (all copper)
Like all plated bullets, you start at the lead bullet start load for that weight of bullet or, if the manufacturer says it is OK, you can use the jacketed start load and work up to mid-range jacketed.
You don't need specific data for any bullet as your mix of components is not the same as in any manual so you have to work up the load any way. If specific data was needed for bullets, you wouldn't have most of the bullets that are out there. You just need data for that weight of bullet and a safe start load.
If you are a new reloader, again, you should be looking in your manuals and finding bullets/powders that they used to make initial loading easier and not going off onto plated bullets and brand new powders-save that after you have about 6 months of reloading experience.
Very helpful info. Thank you.>The question about pressure changing with different case lengths was just theoretical and what I was thinking about was that if I trim all my cases to an equal length, within specs,it would produce a more uniform and consistent round since the volume would be the same with each round,hence same pressure,same charge.
1) Case length is not important and doesn't effect pressure. COL, distance from the bullet's meplat to the case head does effect pressure.
First, make up two inert dummy rounds and find the COL that feeds and chambers in your gun and use THAT COL for load work-up. Start at the start load and work up.
2) 9x19 and .45 ACP both head space on the case mouth. If you trim the cases, that already are shorter than optimum, you are just increasing the "head space" slop that the case already has and nothing destroys accuracy faster than increasing "head space" slop. Don't TRIM. Follow the manual.
One thing to note with ALL manuals that I have read, including Richard Lee's is that the reloading is aimed at bottleneck rifle case and not straightwall pistol cases and REALLY not to cases that head space on the case mouth where trimming just increases that distance from case mouth to the head space "ledge" in the barrel-which has been shown almost every time to hurt accuracy and NEVER to improve it.
As Richard Lee writes in the #2 manual, "Lee makes a complete selection of case trimmers for all handgun calibers. This is a product I resisted producing, because it did not pass my test. I always ask myself, "Would I buy one?" I would not buy a case trimmer for handgun cartridges for normal use. I never shoot maximum loads in my handguns and I never shoot magnum calibers. My cases wear out before they need trimming."
Again, all his talk about trimming and crimping is for bottleneck cases (look at the pictures he uses) and NOT straightwall pistol case. You will find that straightwall cases DO NOT grow, as there is no shoulder to stretch the case, and the case will tend to be the same or slightly shorter after several shooting/sizing sessions. In fact, I have known Bullseye shooters who only fired a case three times in matches before retiring it to the "practice and lose" pile just for that reason-the game calls for accuracy and the cases shrank and groups increased.
Right now, 9x19 is being used for service matches in Bullseye and there, many sort their sized cases and only use the longest ones in matches.
I can tell you right now, after spending several decades shooting .357 Mag and .44 Mag, not ONE of those cases grew over time or needed to be trimmed.
Then, remember the talk about the "need" for consistent crimp?
Well,
1) taper crimps don't need that and the taper crimp is really just to remove any case mouth flare you used as part of the case expansion step (the case tension holds the bullet and NOT the crimp-just look at a factory .45 Auto or 9x19 cartridge and you'll see NO discernible crimp)
and
2) they are talking about rifles capable of shooting 1MOA or smaller groups, where the consistency of the trim/crimp MIGHT shrink the group by 0.1MOA at most. This is so small, compared to the 8-30 MOA your 9x19 and .45 will probably give you, that you will never see it (1 MOA at 25 yards is a group center-to-center of about 0.25"-lots of luck getting that group).
I tried with .38 Spl, .357 Mag, and .44 Mag to see if trimming made any difference and it DID NOT make any difference. Neither does sorting cases by head stamp. In fact, in every case, the average group size was smaller and the std. dev. was smaller for the untrimmed and/or mixed cases, but well within the null hypothesis that the data sets came from the same overall set.
You have to remember with handguns, you are NOT shooting at or past 100 yards and you aren't shooting a 1 MOA gun. I can get groups with poorly cast lead bullets that are wrinkled (but the base is filled out completely) that are as good as "perfectly" cast bullets out to 50 yards. I would probably see some effect out at 100 yards, but I have very seldom fired a straightwall pistol cartridge at that distance.
Just step back and first, follow the basic directions for sizing, expanding, seating, and crimping before you worry about anything else. Learn first and then worry about any small details.
A useless waste of time!Anyone else trim pistol brass? Am I missing something?
Thanks for your input. Since it's Mama's pistol,I would have to wait until she was gone to push something down the barrel, so don't plan on slugging it right now. She has been shooting the Winchester 115gr white box rounds and the function well. I may knock a bullet out and measure it. Right now,I am pretty inclined towards the .356. I have quite a bit of unigue and a couple of pounds of CFE on hand. Think I'll go with the CFE starting load and save the unique for .45 loads. The data in 9mm loads and unique are scarce and vary pretty drastically according to what you read and where. The unique works great in .45. Using 5.8gr under a 230 gr plated fmj from Lee's book. 5.7 is their starter. Thanks again! I just bumped one of the white box 115 plated fmj's apart,and it measures .356,so they work well in that pistol,and I'm going with that for now. May try some .357's further down the line.Slug your barrel:
lead and plated bullets should be at least 0.001" larger than actual bullet groove diameter.
Jacketed can vary a fait bit.
Just to add to your confusion,
I use 0.355-0.357" jacketed bullets in 9x19 without issue and find best accuracy is often with 0.357".
I use 0.356-0.358" lead bullets, and find 0.357-0.358" bullets to be best.
during the last 8 years of bullet shortages, I found that I could almost always find 0.357" jacketed bullets to use in various person's 9x19 guns, after the other folks cleaned out all the 0.355" bullets.
There is no real "safety" issue as, with any reloading, you start at the START load and work up.
Many folks have used 0.355" plated and complained about tumbling/keyholing. After about twenty years of such complaints, some plated bullet companies have started to realize that, yes, their bullets should be sized like lead bullets and offer 0.356".