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T C Seneca, 45 Caliber

9K views 30 replies 6 participants last post by  Hawg 
#1 ·
Gentlemen,
I recently purchased a beautiful Seneca, 45 caliber. I'm looking for information on using 777, RS as a charge behind a CVA 225 grain Aerotip Powerbelt bullet for hunting. I'd use 70 grains of 777 to stay 15% below the 80 grain BP max charge.

1. Has anyone used this charge in a Seneca?

2. Does anyone know where I can purchase an original owner's manual?

Thanks,
 
#2 ·
I would stick with a good load of black powder and patched round ball. Find what the rifle shoots best for black powder and round ball and that should put the ball clean through a deer know problem. I started out with Pyrodex years ago and was somewhat satisfied, but until I started using black powder I never got the consistence that I wanted. With the Seneca's short barrel and twist I don't think it will shoot consistence groups. I think I would start with 45 grains of 3f and work up from there. I've never owned a Seneca, but I had a TC Hawken in 45 which is about the same rifle. There are .440 swaged round ball out there and are a lot cheaper than the Aerotip.
 
#5 ·
Larry,
Thank you for your prompt and thoughtful reply. BP fans have offered the same advice. I have shot patch and ball, was amazed at the accuracy at 50 yards.
Thanks
Hawg,
Thank you for the prompt reply. I will measure the twist as I learned the the Senecas were shipped with a few different barrel twists.

Have you ever used 777 powder in your side lock muzzle loaders?

Thanks
 
#6 ·
The only powder I have used other than black powder is Pyrodex RS. If I couldn't get black powder I would use RS again in a pinch. If you wanted to use a bullet type projectile you might try the TC Maxi ball. I had pretty good luck with them. They should be lubed with a good black powder lube or they will foul the barrel after a few shots. You can buy them ready made or you can get a mold to cast your own.
 
#8 · (Edited)
Try Track of the Wolf, Buffalo Arms, Pecatonica River or Dixie Gun Works. One of them should have a Maxi or similar mold and anything else you might need for your 45. The 45 cal. accoutrements are available but as you were told in Kittery, most shops carry very little for the caliber. Lee offers a .440 round ball mold for not much money and I've found them adequate for the purpose.

In a cap lock a lot of the wanna be black powders can be difficult to ignite as their ignition temperature is some 200+ degrees hotter than black. I know real black powder is hard to find in many areas. However, if you consolidate with a couple buddies who shoot BP a case of 25 lbs. can be ordered for the same HazMat fee as 1 lb. For me that always made the fee more digestible and adds only a little over $1.00 per lb. to the powder.

I was unaware the Seneca's used other than a 48-1 twist in 45 cal.. If you would post what you learn about yours.

Ha...the thought just occurred to me that as you mentioned Kittery, Me. there is a huge BP distributor in Maine called the Maine Powder House. They are located in Yarmouth and I would think you could drive up there and pick up what you need or want. I saw on their web-site that right now they are offering free shipping on 25 lbs. While I've been to Maine bear hunting a few times I don't know how far Yarmouth is from Kittery. Maine sure is beautiful once a fella gets away from the Portland mess. Here's a link.

http://www.mainepowderhouse.com/
 
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#9 ·
Sharps4590,
Thank you for your comprehensive reply, many good tips. Regarding BP, thank you for the tip on the MPH but we have a good supply in this area. Southern NH & ME has no shortage. KTP is alway well supplied. I love that store, go every week or so for a fun road trip.

I just measured the twist of my Seneca barrel. It's 1:36". My Hawken 54 caliber is 1:48". I think that I read that later Seneca barrels were optimized for RB/Maxi's and the then new Sabot technology. I have uncessively tried to purchase an original Owner's Manual. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks again
 
#14 ·
Thanks Hawg,
I'm convinced, stick with BP. I was tempted to try the 777 in the Seneca because of the easy clean up. I use 777 in a Ruger Old Army revolver. Fires fine and clean up is sooo easy. In a pinch, just use warm tap water.
Thanks,
That's all you need with bp and Pyrodex. Cold water even works. A couple of passes with a bore mop and the bore is clean and shiny.
 
#12 ·
From what I read and hear you're fortunate to have such a good supply of BP dealers. Wonder if that has anything to do with a lot of the re-enacting that goes on up your way? I understand in New England and the Mid-Atlantic states there's multiple events every weekend just about throughout the year. Whatever the reason, good for you!!!!

1-36....ha...I never would have suspected that in a 45. The 36 cal. Seneca, yes. I didn't know TC was still making the Seneca when the sabot craze started.

Only suggestion I have for an owners manual is the on-line auction sites or perhaps Wards Auctions or evil bay. Wards has an on-line auction about every 3 months. I think the next comes up in August. Yes, I checked, starts August 1st. They always have a lot of publications and a fella might luck onto one. I've bought a few things off their auctions and they've always been good to me. If you go there check out the firearms and other goodies they offer. A fella could luck into a 45 cal. Maxi mold too, just have to check.
 
#13 ·
Sharps4590,
BP is popular here because it can be used during the shotgun deer hunting season in NH and MA, not sure about ME. Each state also has a dedicated muzzle loader season. I use mine as a rifle during the MA shotgun season every year and again during the late December ML only season.

Never heard of the Ward on-line auction but will check it out tonight.

Thanks
 
#15 ·
Hawg,
Thanks for the clean up advice. So many recipes. One club member uses a recipe for Weasel Pee: 1/3 each, Murphy's Oil Soap, Rubbing Alcohol, Peroxide. He keeps swabbing the bore until clean then dries the bore with Alcohol.

Thanks again,
 
#16 ·
Hawg,
Thanks for the clean up advice. So many recipes. One club member uses a recipe for Weasel Pee: 1/3 each, Murphy's Oil Soap, Rubbing Alcohol, Peroxide. He keeps swabbing the bore until clean then dries the bore with Alcohol.

Thanks again,
Whatever works. Some people can't abide the idea of water in a bore. I had a dude on another forum ask me would I put water down the bore of a high grade Sharps. I told him I would if I had a high grade Sharps but since I didn't have one I showed him a pic of my Weatherby Mark V deluxe in a five gallon bucket of soapy water. :D
 
#17 ·
If they are using a commercial black powder solvent they are putting water down the bore along with just enough water soluble cutting oil to make it turn white.

Hawg, show 'em that picture of my Sharps, I use hot soapy water in the bore to clean it. ;)
 
#22 ·
I just make sure the water is hot enough to get the steel hot, that way it's easy to dry it. You want the water verging toward uncomfortably hot but not scalding. A couple dry patches will dry it out fairly easily, then you just oil it and it's good to go.
Bikini


I don't have any shots of it in a bucket of suds.
 
#23 ·
That concoction with peroxide made the rounds here in the Ozarks 25 years ago. Peroxide WILL rust your bore if it is not completely flushed out.

To clean my muzzleloaders I boil a tea kettle of water and use it. After plugging either the touch hole or nipple and the requisite patches the final step is to pour the remainder of the tea kettle of water through the bore. It gets hot enough to dry of its own accord and two patches wipe out what residual water might be left. Then lube the bore with something thick enough to seal it.

I have a theory about using boiling water. I believe the boiling water causes all those little cracks and fissures that exist in all barrels to open up a bit, allowing the fouling to be completely flushed from the bore. Then upon coating the bore with a grease type lube because the barrel is hot the lube runs into all those little cracks and fissures. As the barrel cools they close up and force out the lube that resides in them, making for an even better seal against the atmosphere. I may be as goofy as a pet '**** but I never have rust in my barrels.
 
#25 ·
Grizzly1, Sharps4590,

I use the tea kettle hot water method for cleaning the MLs with the addition of a bowl of hot water and dish washing soap to brush the nipple area clean. Then, quickly wipe the warm bore dry with large patches; then coat with water soluble TC Bore Butter.

I don't use petroleum products in or on a ML because the oil with BP fouling produces a mud that can be difficult to remove, especially from the firing chamber of the bore. Everyone seems to have a method that works.

Thanks guys,
 
#26 ·
The blackpowder club I used to belong to, the shooters there swore by their magic formula as a bore cleaner. It was distilled water and Windex, they said buy a gallon of distilled water and a large bottle of Windex. Pour out enough water to be replaced by the Windex and there you have it.
 
#29 ·
Twicepop,
Thanks for the reply. Interesting.

BP shooters still use the water/windex recipe here but mainly for a quick clean between shots. One club member, former NH BP champ, used the w/w recipe exclusively during multi-day matches because he didn't want the bore disturbed between events. It worked great for him, he won the major event for a few years running.

Others members use Ballistol and water. I will post the results of a 3/4 year experiment with various preservatives on sheet steel later. Tip,.... Ballistol wins!!

Thanks again,
 
#28 ·
There's probably 1000 ways to clean a muzzleloader and while some of them can be time consuming to downright expensive none of them are wrong. As long as you get the fouling out and keep petro based lubes out of the bore you're good to go and you can use petro based lubes as long as you clean it all out before you load it. Me, I like to pop a cap and pour a little powder down the bore and set it off before I load it for hunting, so no petro based lube for me.
 
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