The Firearms Forum banner

H&R .410 to muzzle loader

6K views 25 replies 12 participants last post by  T.H.Burleson 
#1 ·
My grandfather purchased, and I have inherited, an H&R .410 model 1915. It is marked 410-44 so its an old one. The 410 shot shells I bought fit very snug in the chamber but there is no visible corrosion to narrow the bore. The snug fit begins immediately when you start to insert the shell. Is this a normal tolerance problem or am I looking at a problem?

I was planning to use an adapter and trying the shotgun out as a "209" in-line muzzle loader, but the adapter doesn't fit into the chamber more than maybe a 16th of an inch.

The shotgun is really worn so there isn't much value here but it is a family heirloom.

Thanks in advance
 
#3 ·
Unless you plan on making a muzzle loading SHOTGUN, I think you're asking for trouble.

Rifles, you may notice, have much thicker barrel walls than shotguns, either muzzle loading or cartridge.

If I was gonna try that, instead of an adapter for using shotgun primers, I'd buy some primed hulls.

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Fiocchi-410-25-new_primed-hull-100_bag/productinfo/0644100/

Cut two or three of 'em off with a razor knife, right at the end of the brass. Toss the tube.

That way, if I decided this was a colossal waste of time, I'd still have that bag of primed cases. If I didn't want to load them myself, I could maybe find some other reloaded who might buy them. Seems like it would be much easier to sell primed hulls than to try to sell an adapter.
 
#4 ·
Definitely we are talking muzzle loading shotgun with light charges. The shotgun is at our lake house so no photos for a week or so. I was thinking that since the interference fit occurs when I start to insert the shell that this is not a 2 1/2 vs 3 inch occurrence. Also, the adapter doesn't fit at all. There wasn't some different standard chamber diameter back in the Early 1900s right?
 
#9 ·
You're going to have a problem loading it from the muzzle because of the choke restriction. If you're planning on using it for hunting during muzzle loader season you're going to have to weld the breech shut and add whatever priming system you want to use.
 
#11 ·
Wouldn't that make it bigger than .410?
You must remember that the actual diameter of a 44/40 is .429.
I'm not up on shotguns and not sure just where the .410 measurement comes from. It could be land diameter (like the British .303) but a shotgun doesn't have lands. Maybe choke diameter at the muzzle?? Or, it could be a translation of the "gauge/bore" measurement that is based on how many bore sized lead balls it takes to make up a pound. (i.e. the diameter of one of those balls)
 
#12 ·
You must remember that the actual diameter of a 44/40 is .429.
I'm not up on shotguns and not sure just where the .410 measurement comes from. It could be land diameter (like the British .303) but a shotgun doesn't have lands. Maybe choke diameter at the muzzle?? Or, it could be a translation of the "gauge/bore" measurement that is based on how many bore sized lead balls it takes to make up a pound. (i.e. the diameter of one of those balls)
Modern Italian 44-40's are .429. Older ones and some of the newer ones made here are .427. Also a 44-40 is a bottleneck. I don't get how it could be chambered for both. If it's chambered for .410 the 44-40 case is going to blow the neck out to chamber dimensions which would suck for reloaders.

The bore diameter of a .44 is .4215, this is the size of the hole after it is drilled and reamed and it's what it would be in smooth bore configuration. The bore diameter of a .410 is .410.

Bore diameter has no relationship to chamber diameter other than it's typically larger than bore diameter.
 
#14 · (Edited)
The H&R .410 model 1915. That is marked 410-44 can use.
1) 410-2 1/2 shotshells .
2) 44-40 shotshells.
3) 44 XL shotshells.
4) 44 W.C.F. shotshells.
5) 13MM Spanish shotshells.
6) 15MM-? Italian shotshells. ( same junk as the Spanish, just different name)

I don't think you can use the 44-40 standard solid with out doing some harm. That is not to say some people have used them in the past in an emergency . I know my uncle shot a bear once a very long time ago. He only did it the one and only time. As for the bear, it died right there and then in the garden.
The shotgun he used was a Spanish double barrel with rabbit ears and a short 24 inch barrel . This happened during the 1930s. I remember the shotgun quite well because he always kept it hanging over the doorway until he passed away in the 1980s.

Note.
.410 bore diameters can and do vary widely, the SAAMI specifications allow from a minimum of .410 inch (10.41mm), up to plus 20thou of an inch (.430 inch/10.92mm).
 
#18 ·
Hawg you can physically fit a .45 Colt cartridge in a .410 chamber but when that .452 bullet hits the end of the chamber at high velocity and pressure and tries to fit through a .410 hole bad things could happen.
 
#19 ·
The .45 Colt/.410 is a one-way street- Like the Taurus Judge and S&W Governor you can chamber a .410 in an elongated .45 Colt chamber, but you cannot go the other way safely for the reason mentioned in Grizzley1's post. Modern .410 hulls vary a bit in diameter- have you tried chambering a different brand?
 
#25 ·
The snug fit begins immediately when you start to insert the shell. Is this a normal tolerance problem or am I looking at a problem?
As was mentioned earlier, you might try another brand of .410 ammo. Here's the way I see it. The .410 chamber is a bit bigger than the 44-40. So in order to support the 44 case the chamber has to be as small as possible, and still allow the 410 to chamber.
In some current guns that chamber 410 and 45 Colt the opposite is true. The chamber for the 45 is bigger than the 410. So the chamber has to be minimum for the 45 in order to support the 410. This makes the 45 Colt a tight fit.
Hang around and maybe you will get some more info on your muzzle loader conversion.
 
#26 ·
OK, No photos yet, But the barrel says "410-44 40 CAL". I did mic the barrel. Muzzle (ID 10.4mm/.409in, OD 10.8mm/.425in) and Chamber (ID 11.7mm/.461in, OD 22.3mm/.878in, depth 67.4mm/2.65in ). So it is definitely 2 1/2 inches and when I tried some other shells(number 6 shot) they fit pretty good, just a little friction when the brass enters the chamber. The first shells I tried were rifled slugs and they are probably a little thicker.
I think I will turn the adapter down from 12mm to 11.7mm and see how I like it. If this doesn't feel alright, I will repurpose some already fired cases for the brass. Is there a forum on muzzle loading shotguns?
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top