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New AR Build - 5.56 or 223 Wylde

6K views 29 replies 13 participants last post by  PlanoAttorney 
#1 ·
It is time for a confession - I do not own an AR. There, I said it. But, I am willing to make amends if I can get some advice and help.

First, 11 years in the U.S. Marine Corps provided me enough opportunity to shoot, clean, clean again, clean some more, then go shoot and repeat with the M-16/A2 that I I never saw the need nor desire to own one of my own. Ditto for the M-60E3 and the SAW (though I really did like shooting that thing), the Maw Duece would be a fun gun to own but where would I mount it, and the 240 Golf came online just a few years before I got out - I think it has proven itself, but I am still old-school in that I prefer the M-60E3. All that is to bring me to a point in my life where I have noticed that A2 style guns are no where to be found and that means I must have one.

Looking online, there are few choices, but there are some A2 uppers out there, in fact, a complete 20"pre-ban A2 upper can be had for $427 right now. Throw in a stripped lower with kit, buttock, buffer and spring and the whole kit and kabudle would be ~$600. But, it would be NATO 5.56 and I am wandering if there is enough advantage to the 223 Wylde to make the jump.

I reload, and I own zero military brass. Most likely, I will stick with 223 brass and rounds. But for the 223 Wylde (since I want a 20" rifle barrel) I am limited to a SOCOM or heavy barrel. I am thinking of customizing this all the way, engraved barrel (Green Mountain has some beautiful work), engraved receiver with my call sign on it (I spent many years in Mortars so I may have a 60mm mortar engraved on the receiver with my call sign and "Fire for Effect" underneath. I even considered having gold inlay put into the engraving and adding wood furniture but that would make a serious show piece, meaning I have to build two so I can shoot one.

Ideas are abundant but the first decision out the gate is barrel/chamber. The 223 Wylde SOCOM is $100 less than a Government profile 5.56 if I build from ground up, but if I am going 5.56 it makes sense to buy the complete upper and move from there. Since this is strictly for my own personal pride (i.e. I am willing to spend more to get it the way I want it and I have no concern about resale value) the extra weight of the SOCOM is not an issue. Whether or not the wood furniture will fit over the SOCOM is definitely an issue - so anyone with knowledge on that fact please advise.

Otherwise, what is the general consensus? If building and price is not the #1 concern (I do want to keep it under a $grand but it appears that I can build one beautiful rifle on that budget) - what would you do?

1) NATO 5.56, Rem 223, or 223 Wylde?
2) SOCOM, Heavy Barrel, or Gov't profile?
3) Twist rate? 1:8 or 1:9? The complete upper is 1:9.
4) Wood furniture - pros/cons?
5) What other items are a must have on your respective list?
 
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#2 ·
1.Wylde-have 3-reloading doesn't matter-if you have 5.56 brass and run it through your dies,it's .223 specs-
2.Depends what it's for-my 16s and 14.5s are lightweight barrels to swing fast and get on target.
3.1/8-great twist-go to reloading section and see pic of groups I posted-50gr and 77gr-
4.Wood is beautiful on AR-gave my buddy a set for xmas-but no freefloat capability.
5.BCM LPK with a good trigger-POF,RRA,ALG
 
#3 ·
You've got several choices:

You can build one in the configuration that you want.

or

You can purchase one already made, and just enjoy it for a change.

or

You can get one that's close and modify it however you want.

Check the price of ammo while you're shopping and deciding.
 
#4 ·
Between the two - I'd opt for the 5.56mm. The reason is that there will be ..223/5.56mm ammo available for years to come, and if the Gun Grabbers get their way, ammo will once again 'dry up'. If standard calibers become hard to find - the exotic calibers will be like finding dinosaurs.

Never fired or owned a .223 Wylde, and it could be 'the cat's meow', but what are you gaining with an odd-ball round? Speaking entirely for myself, a 5.56mm (I own 3) will do anything I need any of them to do at any distance I need them to do it at.

I'd be more concerned with barrel contour - a barrel that will give you the kind of performance that meets YOUR needs, and a barrel twist rate to stabilize the type of bullets you plan to use. I split the difference with my last build and went with a 1-9 twist M4 that shoots my 55 grain FMJs well, and will also handle the heavier 65 grain style.

If I were starting today from scratch, there are a few things I'd do: I would start with a stripped Anderson lower. I saw some Colt M4 "Match Grade" pre-assembled 1-9 barreled uppers for about $175 with handguards, flash suppressor, dust cover, front sight - everything except the bolt group and charging handle. They had the Colt bolt group for another $80. I'd go with a 6 position GI adjustable buttstock. Most any shop you go into has Milspec AR lower parts sets for about $40. I see Government 'take-off' complete A2 rear sights in most Army/Navy Surplus stores for about $20.

Doing this, you'd have a very nice 5.56mm rifle/carbine for under $500. Most places will even install the lower parts for you for free if you buy the lower and the parts set from them. They did it for me and took about 30 minutes to build the entire rifle (even installing a new barrel!)
 
#6 ·
Never fired or owned a .223 Wylde, and it could be 'the cat's meow', but what are you gaining with an odd-ball round?
Jim, the .223 Wylde is not an odd ball round, it is the chamber. I don't know how to explain it but here is a link to Wikipedia that might be able to! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.223_Wylde_chamber

4.Wood is beautiful on AR-gave my buddy a set for xmas-but no freefloat capability.
When I was visiting the exhibits at the NRA convention I met a fellow who was showing and promoting his wood AR furniture and he had a free floating wooden handguard. The fellow introduced himself as Boyd (don't remember his first name). I ask him if he was kin to the Boyd's Gunstock people and he said his brother owned Boyd's gunstocks. Well, anyway, here is a link to his wooden furniture with a free floated hand guard: http://woodforar.com/ar-free/ I thought the price was kind of high, but, if I had had the money I would have bought a set.

PlanoAttorney, I would go with the Wylde in 20 inch heavy barrel with 1:8 twist and of course, the wooden furniture!
 
#5 ·
I appreciate the replies so far but what I really need is specific information for selecting the barrel. This gun will be 20" barrel with an A2 receiver - these two items are non-negotiable so buying off the rack is NOT an option.

My choice is a complete upper with a NATO 5.56 chambered barrel installed or buy an A2 upper Receiver (stripped) and pick a barrel - in which case I can choose heavy or Gov't profile, and I can get a 223 Wylde chamber. Ergo the first question to answer is: NATO 5.56 vs 223 Wylde - which one and why.

If either, then I could buy the complete upper, it saves time and some money. If the 223 Wylde chamber is the way to go then I have a second choice to make: Gov't profile or SOCOM barrel - which one and why.
 
#10 · (Edited)
This gun will be 20" barrel with an A2 receiver - these two items are non-negotiable so buying off the rack is NOT an option.
You probably wouldn't want a stainless barrel, either then. I get that. I have a Rock River Arms National Match (A2 is the only way they come for that competition) but the barrel is stainless. You might check out a NM rifle to see if you can get one off the rack without a stainless barrel. Seems like you should be able to find that. Chambering is 5.56 Nato/.223 Rem.

They have them someplace. Here is a discussion talking about the three types of steel:

https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Stainless_Steel_vs__Chrome_lined_Barrell/12-460660/
 
#11 ·
See - even an old dog like me CAN learn something new. I've heard of the .223 Wylde but like I said - I know NOTHING about it. Sounds to me like that would be the way to go.

Of course everything I suggested was along the lines of the M4 (barrel length, detachable rear sight, etc.). It is your rifle and your idea. I've either owned or fired Sp1s, M16A1s, the M16A2s and the M4-style carbines military and civilian. I also like the A2 fixed carry handle uppers and do prefer the longer A2 rifle barrels over the shorter M4 lengths.

I wasn't crazy about the flat-top uppers with the detachable rear sights - but they DO offer the ability to mount telescopic and other sights - where the fixed carry handle A2 doesn't.

You guys and AR wood stocks - some people's kids...... ARs are meant to have GENUINE plastic.
 
#16 ·
As I noted in an earlier post, I am new to learning about the .223 Wylde. I can see the advantage if you are using .223 ammo in a 5.56 AR; but what advantage does it offer to those that can reload 5.56 spec ammo or uses factory 5.56 ammo?
 
#22 ·
Next question - 80% lower or just buy one?

The advantage I see to a 80% lower are (1) I get to play with some tools, maybe justify buying something new; and (2) it is a blank slate meaning I get to decide what engravings and markings go on the thing. I know some would say it is unregistered, I am not so worried about that and a FFL transfer is no big deal in Texas. Other than theses are there any advantages to an 80% lower?

The downside of an 80% lower is (1) resale if I ever want to sell or trade the gun (not likely but I can't live forever); (2) if I screw it up I get to buy another; (3) cost of the jig and tools will make a factory receiver less expensive for a one and done project.

Advantage to a factory lower is simple enough - buy it and be done. I can even buy it with all the lower parts installed and if this is one and done, it is less expensive.

Disadvantage to a factory lower is the space for engraving is depleted on the left and some manufacturers have markings on the right side.

Am I missing something? Are there other advantages/disadvantages to an 80% lower or factory lower? What would you buy and why?
 
#23 ·
Next question - 80% lower or just buy one?

The advantage I see to a 80% lower are (1) I get to play with some tools, maybe justify buying something new; and (2) it is a blank slate meaning I get to decide what engravings and markings go on the thing. I know some would say it is unregistered, I am not so worried about that and a FFL transfer is no big deal in Texas. Other than theses are there any advantages to an 80% lower?

The downside of an 80% lower is (1) resale if I ever want to sell or trade the gun (not likely but I can't live forever); (2) if I screw it up I get to buy another; (3) cost of the jig and tools will make a factory receiver less expensive for a one and done project.

Advantage to a factory lower is simple enough - buy it and be done. I can even buy it with all the lower parts installed and if this is one and done, it is less expensive.

Disadvantage to a factory lower is the space for engraving is depleted on the left and some manufacturers have markings on the right side.

Am I missing something? Are there other advantages/disadvantages to an 80% lower or factory lower? What would you buy and why?
You can have a local shop laser engrave a serial number of your own design into an 80%, there are more and more cerakoters who are offering that, luckily I have one that's fairly local who charges $40 to do one to the required depth. I did one 80% and other than saying you did it yourself, and no paper trail, there's not a lot to be said for it other than as you noted, for customizing the lettering or designs on the side. I went back to just buying Anderson lower receivers for the time savings.
 
#24 ·
If I may weigh in...

If I were building a rifle, any rifle, with the pure intent of having a range toy, I would go with a heavy, or bull barrel. Deals with heat better and is more accurate.

Of the choices I'd go with the Wylde chamber. Even if you do reload you can still safely fire both 5.56 and 223 out of it, so if you find yourself out and about you could pick up factory ammo. Plus the longer 80 grain bullets fire easier out of them thanks to the longer throat.

Due to you wanting to engrave I would go with the 80% and try to find somebody with the jigs for a one and done project. As for messing it up, take your time, watch some videos if you can find them...
 
#26 ·
I set Orion the request, I had seen them before, but they did not give prices. I found Tactical Machining, but they are out of stock. Not sure how they can be out of stock on blanks, when they have 80% lowers for sale. Maybe the engraving machine is broken.

LGS said they can engrave for me. They asked if I was brining a white or anodized lower. Starting to look like I need a white blank, I can have it engraved, send the receiver to be anodized, and then decide if I want to put inlay inside the engraving.

Anyone try Forrester's Gold Inlay?
 
#27 ·
Why not a Wylde? It has some advantages and no detractors, I Buy Wylde chambers if I can get a good deal on the specific barrel I want for that particular assembly..1 x 8 twist and you are good to go. An A2 upper is the best choice if you want a handle, the bolt on is also good if you get a Colt or other quality handle unfortunately the majority encountered are cheap nock off’s and will not zero or if they do will not hold it under use.
 
#30 ·
I ended up with the 20" NATO 5.56 heavy barrel; 20" with A-2 Upper Receiver and today Brownells has Colt lowers on sale $259 complete. I usually would not opt for the "brand mark up" but at that cost, complete just snap it on and slap a mag in before pulling the charging handle, I had to do it and it "completes" this as a full "retro build" as soon as I find an A2 buttstock. Seems like plenty of choices on line.

Darned if I haven't even finished this one project and now I want another. That wood furniture is calling to me. Maybe I will get the wood furniture, dress it up every now and then and take it on a range date, but keep the plastic stuff handy.
 
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