I’ve been reloading for many years (mostly 9mm, 45ACP and 38Super) and I’m having a problem with my 9mm reloads recently that I’ve never encountered before and am looking for some help.
I just finished off my last 1000 or so rounds of 9mm with no issues and started to load a new batch and am having problems with the ammo feeding my M&P Shield and my Sig P229.
I use a Dillon XL650 with Dillon dies and the components are as follows:
Brass - various types that I collect at the range,
Bullets - Berry’s 124gr FMJ Round Nose
Powder - 5.0gr Winchester 231
Primers – Winchester Small Pistol
This is the same combination that I’ve always used with no problems, which is why this is so perplexing.
The issue is that the rounds (about 30-40% or so) fail to fully load into the chamber. When I inspect the round, I see some gouging of the bullet right about where the case mouth is. See attached picture.
I’ve checked all measurements using a caliper and they match the prior reloads and some Winchester factory ammo I have.
Any thoughts/suggestions as to what the issue could be would be most appreciated.
They call this 'Shaving Lead'. You don't have enough flare or case mouth 'bell', and so your bullets are shaving lead as you try to seat/crimp them. Next time when you go to resize your fired cases, adjust the decapping rod to go into the case a little deeper - this will cause the case mouth to flare/bell a little more. Do this a little at a time with one case, and use a new fresh bullet to check to see when you have enough bell as you adjust that decapping rod.
Just remember to crimp your bullets enough to remove the bell from the end of the case mouth. If you don't remove the bell/flare the round won't fully seat in the chamber.
To me it looks like the bullet is being gouged by thr chamber mouth, and crushing the case. I'm guessing the rounds do not have this defect prior to feeding. I'd check the crimp, perhaps there is just enough flare left in the case mouth to snag the chamber mouth as the round feeds. Or check to see lf the magazine lips may be bent ot distorted. Definatly a feeding problem...
Looks to me like the cartridge jammed slightly against the camber mouth putting that scar on the bullet and causing a slight crush/fold to the mouth of the case at the scar site. That crush/fold would keep the round from fully chambering. I would guess this is because the approach angle of the cartridge has changed. What could cause this? Don't know, maybe a change in magazine lips or damage to the lips. Does it happen with all your mags? Identify your mags and try it ans see if it happens with just one mag or does it happen with all of them. Since your loaded round specs are all the same and within tolerance I suspect something other than improperly loaded cartridge is the culprit.
It appears to me the jacket is accordioned towards the head of the case. You say it doesn't feed in two guns it use to feed in (??). If that's true then to me that puts it back into the reloading arena. Have you thoroughly cleaned and inspected the interior of the seating die and the crimping die? I'd look there for an edge that could catch the bullet jacket.
I am also of the opinion that it has something to do with the "belling" of the brass and the bullet seating/crimping die is malfunctioning. Make sure that your bullet seating/crimping did is snugged all the way down on the toolhead.
I agree that it's a flaring issue. I clean my flaring die occasionally as there can be a slight buildup of junk in it.
I would inspect your current batch of unfired ammo and think you'll find a few more like this indicating that it's a reloading problem and not a chambering problem.
I agree with Jim Brady's assessment completely. But the instructions on how to correct it may not work depending on what dies he is using.
Most three die sets decap with the sizing die, have a separate flaring die, then the seating die.
That is definitely caused by insufficient flare, not by the chamber.
The die set he uses he stated are Dillion dies in a RL650. I believe those are the the same as regular dies except the Dillon dies deliver powder through the flaring station (Station #2). That station has a universal die (I think Dillon calls it the powder die) for handguns with a powder funnel with a rounded nose. As the case rises it pushes the powder funnel up, causing the powder measure to deliver powder through the funnel. When the upward motion stops the rounded nose of the funnel flares the case. The amount of flare is a function of the depth the universal powder die is adjusted into the tool head.
To achieve progressive operation you must use the Dillon universal die and the caliber correct powder funnel. Anyone else's die set will NOT WORK progressively.
The problem could be not enough flare (easily adjusted) or the seating or crimping operation, both of which work like everyone else's dies.
I agree that the problem could develop during the flaring and crimping operation but wouldn't it be very apparent when inspecting a completed cartridge? As I understood him his completed rounds were all in spec. when he examined them and this damage occurred when the round was chambered. He said he checked his rounds with a caliper and they were with in spec. Wouldn't excessive flare show up in that check? It did not sink in with me that this occurred on two pistols so I have to back up on my idea of a magazine problem so I am not sure what happened but am following this because I load a lot 9 mm. and always seeking info.
Not excessive flare. Insufficient flare.
In the picture there is way to much jacket deformation for that to happen in the gun. The round looked like that before being put in the magazine.
I've occasionally made the same mistake myself.
Since you say that you're having this issue in two guns, I'm saying it's a problem at the press. Have you checked your seating die? Have you noticed these coming out of the press like this? It almost looks like the bullet getting cocked while seating and pushing the plating up enough until it catches the mouth and crushes the case.
I re-read his original post and it doe not say the damage was done during loading into the gun but when the cartridge would not load, an inspection showed the problem. In addition, he apparently has been using this setup for some time with no problems. But now TWO guns will not chamber them. I could understand one magazine for one gun developing a problem but TWO magazines from TWO different guns developing the same problem at the same time ?????
No guess is perfect but mine is that it is a reloading problem and NOT a magazine problem. It is extremely difficult to solve any gun/reloading problem without being there because there seems to always be a fact or two that gets overlooked in the posts.
In 30 years of reloading on a Dillion RL550B I have seen this problem when the bullet does not enter the case squarely or the flare is not enough. Since the RL550B and the RL650 use the same dies. They can be Dillon or RCBS or LEE or ???) I think my experiences may be equivalent (???).
I'm still seeing the problem much as Howlin' described: Looking at the bullet, what I see is 1.) the case mouth isn't belled out enough, and 2.) the bullet is entering the case slightly canted - and that is showing as the 'wrinkling' of the jacket material. The jacket material is being scrunched-up during bullet seating.
I don't think anything in cycling from the pistol magazine - up the freed ramp - and into the chamber could cause this. It is in the reloading process.
Well, we see a different bullet . It looks to me like the bullet slid on the chamber mouth and the case mouth snagged on the chamber edge and crushed it...
Thanks LD. I missed that in the first reading. I was a bit confused by the suggestion to adjust the decapping rod. I've never seen a die that flares in the sizing die, and don't know how that's even possible. What you describe makes much more sense to me.
I do have some old pistol dies that have a decapping pin on the end of the expander rod. I also have decap dies that don't - and expander dies without the pin. Hope this clears up your confusion.
Some of the alternative dies suggested above might solve the poster's problem but.....It is a Dillon RL650 Progressive Press. People buy them for volume reloading. Stoping the press to do some extra activity off the press or adding an extra station may not be possible on this press for this caliber or at a minimum not conducive to volume reloading.
Remember this is a new problem that developed after thousands of perfect rounds were made by this setup using Dillon Dies. I think the poster has since established that the collapse of the plating and the edge of the case were done during reloading and not from loading the rounds into the TWO guns.
Good points LD.
I think the problem can be answered easily.
1) It is clearly shaved brass from an insufficient flare.
2) The reason he has just now started having this is because he is using mixed brass picked up from the range. A slight difference in thickness is all it takes.
In 9mm or 45acp I don't think mixed brass will cause any other problems. So a slight increase in flare should straighten everything right out. It won't take much of an adjustment to stop the shaving, and should not require adding any steps. At worst an adjustment of the seating die as well to smooth out the case. But I doubt that will be necessary.
I have had the very same problem with my XL650 w/Dillon dies and Berry’s bullets. I simply increased the amount of case bell so the bullet sits down in the case just a little and the problem has gone away.
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