10mm Auto
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IMO the 10MM is no harder on brass than any other high pressure round.
Many pistols/chambers are hard on brass, but that is not the fault of the round itself. Older Glocks for example have unsupported chambers and have been known to reduce case life due to the the infamous Glock Bulge.
Only you can tell how often you can reload your 10mm brass. It all depends on the brass, the firearm and the load itself. It's up to us to examine our brass and make that determination.
Not sure what "the spec load" is, but a 200gr at 1200fps is smokin and above most if not all published load data out of a 5 inch barrel.
Lots of good powders for the 10MM. Plenty of bad or PIA powders as well. It all depends on what you want to shoot. High power/velocity, range/target loads, Lead target or even lead high power bear killers. What's your pleasure?
The original load from Norma back at the time of the introduction of the Colt Delta Elite 10 mm 1911 (1987) spec'ed out at 1200FPS for a 200 gr truncated cone jacketed bullet. The allowed pressure for 10mm is more than other semi-auto and is magnum levels. Todays reloading manuals show loads at least 10% lower in velocity. I'm sure today's commercial loads are at lower levels than those from 1987.
Caneman:
I bought Colt Deltat Elite 10 mm the year it was introduced and got the first one that came through my dealer. There was no brass, no bullets, no reloading data. no dies for some time. But when I shot Norma and reloads, done when stuff became available, I found that 200 gr loads at 1200 FPS were not fun to shoot at all. The gun has a tendency to badly twist during firing, and the recoil is excessive. When I backed it down to 1000 FPS, it was much more fun to shoot. The results that you felt were not that much different than 45ACP.
Being practical, I think a shooter is much better served by a good 45ACP gun or the 10mm downloaded to 40S&W specs or a 40S&W gun. So did the FBI when they bought a bunch of 10 mm's for their agents. The downloaded 10 mm (FBI Load) is the father of the 40S&W. The FBI virtually spec'ed the whole concept of the 40S&W cartridge that is so popular today and the 10 mm has been pushed aside and almost left behind.
LDBennett
Caneman:
I bought Colt Deltat Elite 10 mm the year it was introduced and got the first one that came through my dealer. There was no brass, no bullets, no reloading data. no dies for some time. But when I shot Norma and reloads, done when stuff became available, I found that 200 gr loads at 1200 FPS were not fun to shoot at all. The gun has a tendency to badly twist during firing, and the recoil is excessive. When I backed it down to 1000 FPS, it was much more fun to shoot. The results that you felt were not that much different than 45ACP.
Being practical, I think a shooter is much better served by a good 45ACP gun or the 10mm downloaded to 40S&W specs or a 40S&W gun. So did the FBI when they bought a bunch of 10 mm's for their agents. The downloaded 10 mm (FBI Load) is the father of the 40S&W. The FBI virtually spec'ed the whole concept of the 40S&W cartridge that is so popular today and the 10 mm has been pushed aside and almost left behind.
LDBennett
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Depends upon the reason you are carrying a 10mm, doesn't it? For example, a backwoods bear gun you would be better served with full power 10mm loads than a .45ACP or .40S&W.
Full power 10mm loads are a learned taste, but once you acquire the bug, are difficult to give up. Right now, my preferred EDC load is Underwood Ammo 155grn moving along at a right smart pace of 1500fps with 775 ft-lbs of muzzle energy. Snappy to say the least, but a very accurate and controllable round.
norahc:
Of course you are right. Since I don't hunt and only target shoot I often forget about the hunting uses for guns.
But If I were looking to protect myself from a large bear, I sure would not want to limit myself to a dinky 10 mm. I'd have a 454 Casull loaded with a big heavy bullet going as fast as possible.
If you have ever talked to people who live in Alaska where bear attacks are possible, you would find them telling you to use as big a gun as you can handle and that usually means a big mean revolver loaded with a mean cartridge. Anything else just makes the bear mad and a charging mad bear with a dinky little bullet in him is more dangerous than a dead one laying on ground.
For those of us that target shoot I think the 45ACP and the 40S&W make more sense. Today the 10 mm is dying. There are fewer gun, ammo is harder to find, and if it were not for 40S&W, the bullets would be hard to find. The brass already is hard to find. If you intend to take a long trip on a train then it makes no sense to get on one that is to stop forever at the next station a few miles down the rails. 10mm is a declining use cartridge, whether it is a good one or not...it's just a fact of life.
I still have my Colt and a Thompson Contender with a 10 inch 10mm barrel (that I rarely shoot). I'll probably never get rid of them. I have enough brass to last my lifetime so there is no concern for me of obsolescence. But as I have stated above, I'd recommend the 45ACP or 40S&W for a semi-auto pistol over the 10 mm to any who might ask.
LDBennett
Of course you are right. Since I don't hunt and only target shoot I often forget about the hunting uses for guns.
But If I were looking to protect myself from a large bear, I sure would not want to limit myself to a dinky 10 mm. I'd have a 454 Casull loaded with a big heavy bullet going as fast as possible.
If you have ever talked to people who live in Alaska where bear attacks are possible, you would find them telling you to use as big a gun as you can handle and that usually means a big mean revolver loaded with a mean cartridge. Anything else just makes the bear mad and a charging mad bear with a dinky little bullet in him is more dangerous than a dead one laying on ground.
For those of us that target shoot I think the 45ACP and the 40S&W make more sense. Today the 10 mm is dying. There are fewer gun, ammo is harder to find, and if it were not for 40S&W, the bullets would be hard to find. The brass already is hard to find. If you intend to take a long trip on a train then it makes no sense to get on one that is to stop forever at the next station a few miles down the rails. 10mm is a declining use cartridge, whether it is a good one or not...it's just a fact of life.
I still have my Colt and a Thompson Contender with a 10 inch 10mm barrel (that I rarely shoot). I'll probably never get rid of them. I have enough brass to last my lifetime so there is no concern for me of obsolescence. But as I have stated above, I'd recommend the 45ACP or 40S&W for a semi-auto pistol over the 10 mm to any who might ask.
LDBennett
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Actually, 10mm is in the middle of a mini-revival and ammo is actually getting easier to to find.
But I do agree with you in recommending 45ACP or 40S&W to most people. If they really want the 10mm, they will find their own way to it. No sense discouraging them early on with a round that they may not like.
As far as bigger is better in the backwoods, I guess it comes down to personal choice and the threat level of the area you are in. 5-6 rounds of .454 Casull, or 16 of 10MM in a gun that weighs less fully loaded than the 454 does empty. Where I live, bears aren't an issue. Mountain lions, elk, coyotes, and two legged varmits are the big issues. 10mm works great on all of them as a defensive round.
But I do agree with you in recommending 45ACP or 40S&W to most people. If they really want the 10mm, they will find their own way to it. No sense discouraging them early on with a round that they may not like.
As far as bigger is better in the backwoods, I guess it comes down to personal choice and the threat level of the area you are in. 5-6 rounds of .454 Casull, or 16 of 10MM in a gun that weighs less fully loaded than the 454 does empty. Where I live, bears aren't an issue. Mountain lions, elk, coyotes, and two legged varmits are the big issues. 10mm works great on all of them as a defensive round.
thanks for the info...
this gun is a Glock 20C that will be a sidearm while hunting/hiking for SD of two legged idiots, pot farmers, lions, black bears, and rattlers...
where i live in Kommiefornia i can only use non-lead bullets, so i will be loading a Barnes 155 gr hollow point, but is requires approximately the same loads as a 200 gr JHP being as the two bullets have about the same surface area that contacts the bore...
also looking to make my own snake loads, if anyone has done that before then pls let me know how you are doing it...
this gun is a Glock 20C that will be a sidearm while hunting/hiking for SD of two legged idiots, pot farmers, lions, black bears, and rattlers...
where i live in Kommiefornia i can only use non-lead bullets, so i will be loading a Barnes 155 gr hollow point, but is requires approximately the same loads as a 200 gr JHP being as the two bullets have about the same surface area that contacts the bore...
also looking to make my own snake loads, if anyone has done that before then pls let me know how you are doing it...
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So you cannot use lead bullets in certain areas of California? Wow, that is dumb.
I live in NY and we need background checks for ammo. No guns with +7 rounds can now be sold.... big "clips" are evil.... AW are now registered and ammo purchases are reported to local police for their possible action..... and on and on and on.......
I'm moving to California to escape the crazy gun laws in NY.
I live in NY and we need background checks for ammo. No guns with +7 rounds can now be sold.... big "clips" are evil.... AW are now registered and ammo purchases are reported to local police for their possible action..... and on and on and on.......
I'm moving to California to escape the crazy gun laws in NY.
RAJBCPA:
NO, NO!!!!! Don't move to California for better gun laws because the gun laws suck here too, but not as bad as New York's. We have the AW ban (for which there are loop holes), 10 round mags, all guns must be cased (and locked) for travel and can not be displayed outside the case except at shooting locations, registration of hand guns, waiting periods for all guns, private gun sales only through dealers with registration, testing every 4 or 5 years to buy handguns, tons of paperwork for each gun with a fee per gun sale, micro-stamping of bullets when the technology patented by one supplier runs out, registration of ammo sales in some cities (Los Angeles for one), 50BMG outlawed, and other limitations in the pipeline.
The "NO Lead Bullets Law" was to protect the birds of prey as their lead levels were rising. Since the law the lead levels in the birds have not gone down, so that worked, didn't it.
Pretty soon all states will have sucky gun laws.
I can not believe the stupid legislature in New York limited mags to seven rounds. Only a few guns have seven round mags for them. Why did they not use the 10 round mags that we are forced to use in California? I know why....because they want to make all the guns go away forever and all semi-auto are useless without a magazine. I understand that the police were not exempted...how stupid is that. You are going to end up with another gun shootout like they had years ago in Florida where the FBI took it big time when out gunned by the bad guys. Six round revolvers were no match for semi-auto pistols and rifles with large capacity mags.
All politicians are a joke...all they want is to stay on the gravy train by getting re-elected. Texas has the right idea: they don't let them meet full time but only for a few months a year. If they are not there they can not pass laws.
LDBennett
NO, NO!!!!! Don't move to California for better gun laws because the gun laws suck here too, but not as bad as New York's. We have the AW ban (for which there are loop holes), 10 round mags, all guns must be cased (and locked) for travel and can not be displayed outside the case except at shooting locations, registration of hand guns, waiting periods for all guns, private gun sales only through dealers with registration, testing every 4 or 5 years to buy handguns, tons of paperwork for each gun with a fee per gun sale, micro-stamping of bullets when the technology patented by one supplier runs out, registration of ammo sales in some cities (Los Angeles for one), 50BMG outlawed, and other limitations in the pipeline.
The "NO Lead Bullets Law" was to protect the birds of prey as their lead levels were rising. Since the law the lead levels in the birds have not gone down, so that worked, didn't it.
Pretty soon all states will have sucky gun laws.
I can not believe the stupid legislature in New York limited mags to seven rounds. Only a few guns have seven round mags for them. Why did they not use the 10 round mags that we are forced to use in California? I know why....because they want to make all the guns go away forever and all semi-auto are useless without a magazine. I understand that the police were not exempted...how stupid is that. You are going to end up with another gun shootout like they had years ago in Florida where the FBI took it big time when out gunned by the bad guys. Six round revolvers were no match for semi-auto pistols and rifles with large capacity mags.
All politicians are a joke...all they want is to stay on the gravy train by getting re-elected. Texas has the right idea: they don't let them meet full time but only for a few months a year. If they are not there they can not pass laws.
LDBennett
Blue Dot, very popular, works best if run at the upper end of the scale. Huge muzzle flash.
IMR 800X, Work well if you are going to weigh each and every charge as it meters like Corn Flakes.
Longshot is a great choice for high power loads. Meters well, low flash, excellent accuracy and top velocities. I have never used it with anything less than 180gr.
AA #9 meters like water as it is a very fine ball powder. I use it and it works well, but I can live without it in my cabinet.
Power Pistol, never tried it, but I have read that it has a huge fire ball as well.
I can't comment on the 155gr Barnes as I have never tried them, data is also very scarce. I shoot primarily 180gr Jacketed and lead. For mid to upper level loads it's tough to beat Silhouette and AA#7. For high power and top velocities it's LongShot all the way.
I would call Barnes and ask them if they have any load data for their 155gr for the 10MM. Nothing for the 10 on their site.
they knew what they were doing in NY, they realized that this laws would ban 95% of all semi-autos in their state... i hope someone steps up to the plate and challenges them in court, as this law just has to be a violation of our 2A rights...
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I'm actually surprised they didn't try to limit it to 6 rounds, so that everyone would have to have a revolver instead.
that was awesome, here is the recipe he uses:
Snake Shot Recipe for 10mm
-3gr Power Pistol (imo Titegroup could be a possibility as well), pack with wood dowel
-thin cardboard wad on top of powder (soda 12 pack cardboard case, cuts them with another case and taps with a hammer)
-0.5cc scoop (using the Lee powder scoops) of #8 shot (could also use #7.5 to #9), approximately 30 pellets, packs with dowel
-another thin cardboard wad (12 pack case)
-poly-fill stuffing on top of the last wad
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