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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm really excited about this caliber offering! I hope to pick up one of the Savage bolt guns within a year if they seem as impressive after the public gets their hands on them. What do you folks think?

 

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Impressive that's for sure
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Expensive that's for sure
I haven't seen a price on the ammo yet. $15-$20 per 50 would be perfectly acceptable to me for this caliber. Savage says that the rifle will be $349 to start. I wouldn't call that very expensive. :confused:

 

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I haven't seen a price on the ammo yet. $15-$20 per 50 would be perfectly acceptable to me for this caliber. Savage says that the rifle will be $349 to start. I wouldn't call that very expensive. :confused:

I'd rather see the .17 HMR go for cheaper than to make a whole new cartridge. There are enough rimfires and .17s, I'd like to see more universal calibers mass produced. Not; .22 short, .22LR, .22WMR, 17HMR, 17mach2, .17 fireball, .17 remington, and now 17 WSM... With all the different varmints out there, you think you don't need a certain bullet for each critter... I think hunters/ shooters would much rather enjoy cheaper rounds to just plink away with and sharpen their skills, than a new specialty caliber that isn't significantly better than a previous.

As for the stated $15 for a box of 50, before this whole frenzy, I was paying $14.99 for 50 rounds of .223 55 grain FMJ
 
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I haven't seen a price on the ammo yet. $15-$20 per 50 would be perfectly acceptable to me for this caliber. Savage says that the rifle will be $349 to start. I wouldn't call that very expensive. :confused:

My money is on $25 to $40 a box of 50 for this. More than likely it will die a quick death. I don't even see a need for it. You have the 17hmr if you need a little more speed you have the 17 hornet if you need more speed you have the 17 fireball.

If I want a 3000fps varmint rifle I don't want the inconsistencies of a rimfire. I will get a 223 and load rounds cheaper than they can make them plus I get even more speed out of them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
My money is on $25 to $40 a box of 50 for this. More than likely it will die a quick death. I don't even see a need for it. You have the 17hmr if you need a little more speed you have the 17 hornet if you need more speed you have the 17 fireball.

If I want a 3000fps varmint rifle I don't want the inconsistencies of a rimfire. I will get a 223 and load rounds cheaper than they can make them plus I get even more speed out of them.
I see your point, however I don't think there's any way this ammo can be $25-$40 per box and be viable. The affordability factor has been lauded in all of the ads thus far. Winchester already produces this casing for a nail gun blank, so it's not new development besides necking the case down from .27" to .17".

I have a .17 HMR and I love it. If the price point isn't affordable then you're right. The .17 WSM will die a quick death. As far as a comparison to .223, I don't think that's a fair comparison. I like the frangibility of the ballistic tip .17 caliber rounds, compared to a .55 gr. .223 round. I don't worry as much about ricochet or deflection with a 17-20 gr. .17 round. There's definitely a market for this round. It's like a .17 HMR on steroids! :)
 
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Well I see at midwayusa they already have it listed. $14.99 to $15.99 a box.

Hell I can load 223's with Hornady V-Max bullets H335 powder Wolf primers and winchester brass for 30 cents a round. This is all current prices from midwayusa and I know that I paid less for what I have on hand now.

So tell me again how paying 31 cents a shot is affordable for a rimfire? Plus I get a lot better accuracy out of my 223 than you ever can out of a rimfire. When I can get 22lr for less than 4 cents a round.

Just don't see it going anywhere. It doesn't fill a need or a want. It just adds SUPER and MAGNUM to an over priced box of ammo.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
cpt... I explicitly excluded .223 from the discussion above. .223 has its place just like .17 HMR. A hotter .17 rimfire round would definitely be beneficial in areas where hunting of coyotes and other such predators is explicitly regulated to rimfire only. I don't understand where a more sizable .223 centerfire round ever came into this discussion. This is, after all, a rimfire forum... A couple more dollars for 50 .17 WSMs in the early stages of development over .17 HMR isn't a big deal. If you want to talk about cost, let's look at how much more effective surplus corrosive 7.62 x 54R ammo would be and how much cheaper it would be than .17 HMR or .22 WMR. You're comparing apples to oranges. There is a niche market for this caliber that will likely grow, just as .17 HMR did. Why all the hate? It's pretty interesting to see someone so viciously opposed to a new caliber offering. :confused:
 
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OK fine throw out the 223.

Look at the 17 hornet. Centerfire 3000 fps or better and reloadable. It will and is much more accurate than any rimfire will be. Offers the 17 cal in a small light weight package.

Hunted coyotes in at least 10 states never seen any where that was regulated to only rimfire.

I just see it as more wizbang SUPER MAG marketing to make everyone think it is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
OK fine throw out the 223.

Look at the 17 hornet. Centerfire 3000 fps or better and reloadable. It will and is much more accurate than any rimfire will be. Offers the 17 cal in a small light weight package.

Hunted coyotes in at least 10 states never seen any where that was regulated to only rimfire.

I just see it as more wizbang SUPER MAG marketing to make everyone think it is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
There is a new regulation that allows for night hunting of coyotes in SC. One stipulation is that the rifle may not be of any caliber larger than .22 rimfire. Around here, you really only see/hear them at night, although I've been very close to a few during the day when I spooked them in tall grass. The population here is probably not as abundant as other parts of the country.

This is an excerpt from our local law change announcement.

Coyotes and armadillos may be hunted with a rifle no larger than .22 caliber rimfire, a shotgun with a shot size no larger than a BB, or a sidearm of any caliber that has iron sites and a barrel length not exceeding nine inches.
 

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I want a hotter rimfire than my 22lr, have been looking at and am very intrigued ever since I read an article from SHOT show. Most things I've read say that rounds will be about 30 cents a piece. I just don't have a niche for this gun to fill, except maybe hunting in LBL where coyote hunting isn't permissible with a centerfire except for February. Maybe down the road if I catch a good deal I'll get one "just cuz".
 

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I guess it's comparing apples to oranges bringing up .223 but still, my point stands, that there are already soooo many cartridges out there, it makes no sense to make another that does the same job as previous ones have done for decades, or even half a century. I see no reason to have such specialized cartridges.



these are some older .17s not even including the current mass produced 17 HMR.

Then you have .20 calibers


.224 calibers


All of which serve roughly the same purpose, short to medium range small game/ varmint shooting/ plinking. I see no reason to come out with, yet another caliber to the market. kind of reinventing the wheel...
 

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I think it is another wonderful solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Far to often we are all caught up in 'the latest, greatest' hoopla as written by the
gun wags. Not that it doesn't work as advertised but it might not work any
better than what already exists.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I think it is another wonderful solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Far to often we are all caught up in 'the latest, greatest' hoopla as written by the
gun wags. Not that it doesn't work as advertised but it might not work any
better than what already exists.
I agree punchie, IF we're including centerfire into the equation. Compared to .17 HMR however, this thing is light years above its rimfire competition. For instance, a .17 HMR only fires a 20 gr. round at 2375 fps and a 17 gr. round at 2550 fps. This cartridge takes that 20 gr. round to 3000 fps and adds the option for a 25 gr. round at a slower speed. With the heavier 20 gr. round, going around ~625 fps. faster we're talking about a much flatter trajectory that's less influenced by cross winds, with a lot more knockdown power. If the caliber takes off, I could easily see it replacing .17 HMR just like that caliber has effectively made .17 HM2 irrelevant. Yes, the fact that it's fast and rimfire fascinates me. I'm an engineer so I like gadgets and constant improvement by nature. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
By the way, 2375 fps. in a 20 gr. round versus 3000 fps. in a 20 gr. round is a 60% gain in muzzle energy based on the law of Kinetic Energy being defined as 1/2 * Mass * Velocity Squared. I'd call that impressive as a rimfire round evolutionary leap.
 
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