The Firearms Forum banner
1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello everyone,
I'm new to the forum and just came here to find an answer to this problem. I've found another thread with this same topic but unfortunately it was closed for further comments.

So, there's this 1982 rifle that is for sure an original Winchester, but it lacks the serial number. This gun have been in my family (outside the US) for generations now. It is not my interest to sell nor make it public in any way, i just wanted to find more about it and discover why it does not have this so important registration/serial number.

Pardon my poor choice of words, English is not my first language.

Here follow some pictures. Thank you in advance,
blackthorn
 

Attachments

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
28,989 Posts
It should be stamped on the bottom of the receiver just behind the forearm wood. If it was filed off, someone did a good job of not leaving any tooling marks. I don't know what the laws are in Brazil, but that would get you federal prison time here.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
14,529 Posts
S/N's were not required to be on long guns IN THE US until the 1968 GCA. What US law says is meaningless as he's in Brazil.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,652 Posts
"Possibly" one of the rifles sold by Sears in the early 1900's. Sears was selling Winchesters, below the price Winchester was selling them for. Winchester stopped the sales to Sears, and dealers who sold to Sears. Dealers would take the serial numbers off, and sell to Sears.
At this time, Winchester wasn't blind as to what they were doing, and some of these guns have the serial number stamped on the inside of the lower tang. "IF" these guns came back to Winchester for repairs, they stamped WRACO where the serial number would be. I know rifles made during this time, did have the number stamped inside, but not all. The WRACO stamp has been much discussed, but not truly verified to my knowledge.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,652 Posts
If its anywhere on the outside, it should be in this spot as mentioned above. This is how it looks on my model 94, circa 1962 if the local gunsmith got the information on it right, which I have no reason to doubt.

View attachment 253930
Your 94 was made in the 1st quarter of 1963.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,039 Posts
Agree with the above, my understanding, (at least in the US,) Is that Serial #'s were not required prior to 1964. I believe Winchester was using Serial #'s for a fair amount of time prior to this date though.

Welcome to the Forums.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,652 Posts
Brain fart, yes they are on the list of no serial numbers.
Pre-64 Winchesters without a serial number:
Models, 1900, 1901, 1902, 99 Thumb Trigger, 1904, 1911 were numbered, but no records, 20, 25, 36, 37, 40, 41, 47, 55 .22, 58, 59 .22, 59 Shotgun, 60, 60A, 67, 677, 68, 69, and 697.
Models 250,270,190, and 290 are serial numbered, but no data.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
Look at the frame under the lever. That is where my 1883 has its serial number.
I've looked all over it an couldn't find any trace of number, inscription or even a tool mark. It really looks like it never had a number in the first place. Really weird. Thanks for the content tho, it helps clarifying the info.

Somebody filed it off for whatever reason.
It should be stamped on the bottom of the receiver just behind the forearm wood. If it was filed off, someone did a good job of not leaving any tooling marks. I don't know what the laws are in Brazil, but that would get you federal prison time here.
What I don't understand is why someone would remove the serial number of a gun like this. As I mentioned before, it was in my family for a long time, really doesn't make sense to me.

About the federal prison you said, even with that law over long guns before 1964?

S/N's were not required to be on long guns IN THE US until the 1968 GCA. What US law says is meaningless as he's in Brazil.
Maybe this information can help me in the future if i need/want to legalize the weapon as a collector or even as a regular gun. Probably this law in the US would make it clear that there's no intention of committing a crime, something like that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
"Possibly" one of the rifles sold by Sears in the early 1900's. Sears was selling Winchesters, below the price Winchester was selling them for. Winchester stopped the sales to Sears, and dealers who sold to Sears. Dealers would take the serial numbers off, and sell to Sears.
At this time, Winchester wasn't blind as to what they were doing, and some of these guns have the serial number stamped on the inside of the lower tang. "IF" these guns came back to Winchester for repairs, they stamped WRACO where the serial number would be. I know rifles made during this time, did have the number stamped inside, but not all. The WRACO stamp has been much discussed, but not truly verified to my knowledge.
So, this is the only thing that makes sense to me. Maybe a really good job removing the serial number by one of the Sears' supplier you've mentioned. I will look for a gunsmith who can properly disassemble this gun so we can look for it. If I find something, I'll make sure to bring here to this topic.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
If its anywhere on the outside, it should be in this spot as mentioned above. This is how it looks on my model 94, circa 1962 if the local gunsmith got the information on it right, which I have no reason to doubt.

View attachment 253930
Thanks for the picture! It helps a lot.


By the way, your rifle looks pretty neat!
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top