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Discussion Starter #1
This is a follow up post with updated correct information.
At this time I would like to thanks Danny, Ray J and others for their previous input.
This PPK is not a 5th RSHA variation with a clip missing the matching sn on the bottom plate, but rather a late September/early October 1944 commercial "rough" war finished pistol (one of the last 11,000-10,000 made during WWII).
Based on this production period, this PPK went to the military, even though it does not have military, or police markings (only the 2 E/N marks and a "Y" on the inside of the trigger guard).
The finish has been rated at 90%+ (not 80% as previously noted)

with very minor pitting/holster marks and no rust. The matching black bakelite grips were rated very good (no cracks-dents-warping and not brittle), bore rated very good and shoots well.

This gun was brought back and was in the possession of Admiral John H. Hoover who was a key staff member and aide to Admiral Nimitz throughout the Pacific campaign. In addition, he was the former CO of the Lexington before the war, presided over Admiral Halsey's court of inquiry related to the Leyte Gulf incident and typhoon incident and his wife christened the Intrepid.
His son-in-law was an USAF B-24 pilot during the European theater and gave Hoover the pistol in Gaum, in 1945, before returning to the states.
I recieved the pistol from Admiral Hoovers grandson and just recieved the notarized provinance.
Based on this long winded post, and the related updated information and provinance...does this alter valuation?
Regardless, I will do my best to make sure this PPK goes to a true collector, if at all possible.
It has been a labor of love reasearching this pistol.
Thanks,
Colombo
 

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Sir,

I have no idea what your PPK is worth, however, from the photos you posted, I would say 90% condition is being extremely generous.

I think mine is in 96% - 99% condition.

http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/showthread.php?t=81159

Personally, I think mine looks quite a bit better than the photos you posted of your PPK, but, I'm also prejudice.

The history of your PPK, may up the value, I have no idea.

I'm not a collector, mine is a bring back by my Uncle, that I've had in my safe for a long time.
 

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If you have unquestionable documentation that the pistol actually has such a history and association, the value would be sustantially increased. But I must emphasize that a story, or even a service record or photos of the people involved, will NOT be enough. You need proof that that gun was owned by that person. Not a gun like it. Not that some gun was owned by someone. Essentially you need courtroom quality evidence that that gun, by make, model and serial number, was owned by that person who is documented as having held such and such a position.

Jim
 

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It also depends on who the historical figures are, are they well known or just players on the stage. I had to so some research on just who Admiral Hoover was, I had never heard of him. As a part of WWII history, yes it would increase value how much, don't know, not as much as if it had come from Nimitz or Halsey. I guess it would be some what similar to a western gun. Bat Masterson's gun is worth a small fortune, a gun from one of the obscure deputy's would not bring nearly as much. It would still have increased value because it belonged to a named individual, just not nearly as much as as it would if it belong to a legendary figure.
 

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Also, anyone claiming historical association would probably have to document or explain anomalies like what an ETO B-24 pilot was doing on Guam.

Notarized statements of provenance are good, but it depends on what the statement says and other evidence. A notarized statement that such and such a pistol belonged to Jim K would not add to the value unless Jim K suddenly becomes a widely admired public figure or a notorious villain, neither of which is very likely.

Just a note. It seems to me that I have heard that story, or something like it, before, concerning an M1 carbine, supposedly the property of an admiral. Anyone remember or if there are any similarities??

Jim
 

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I remember the post somewhat, different individuals involved, but same principal. A gift to an High ranking officer. I think the navy was the biggest culprit in 80 percent of the bring backs. They had resource to all kinds of trading materials the the GI's craved, plus the means to get it back to the states with out any hassles.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks to to R Jay and Jim K for your input.
I just got off the phone with Admiral Hoovers daughter and the wife of the B-24 pilot (Mears), Helen, who is now 88 years old, and she confirmed the story and added her husband did gift him the PPK in Gaum to her father.
How and why her husband went to Guam... she has no memory, but when her father passed, the pistol went back to her husband and then to her son, who I got the gun from.
As an aside, she recently gifted the original horseshoe over the Intrepid CO's office/living quarters to the Intrepid museum/ship in New York. Seems when the Intrepid was decomissioned, her mother (who Christened the ship), was gifted the horseshoe.
There are no "bring back" papers, which makes sense, under the circumstances of the time (Navy Admiral returning with it), so all I have is the notarized letter from the grandson of the Admiral. Lord, after talking with her, she's definitely an Admirals daughter and I will not be asking for any additional proof of ownership.
If you Google Jonh H. Hoover WWII you will find more about him, links to his preserved papers and further links. He must of carried some weight with Nimitz, if he chaired Halsey's inquiry.
Regardless, I am currently attempting to get this PPK into the hands of a true collector who wants it for their collection.
Again, I've had a blast with this endeavor and respect all your passion for this mode of collecting. Unfortunately, I am not a gun collector.
Thanks again!
Colombo
 

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I absolutely believe everything you say. But how would a collector know for sure that THIS is the exact same pistol that is so described? More importantly, how would he convince whoever owns it next? Personally, I think it's worth more or less the same as most any PPK of similar age and condition.

How much does the gun's gifting by an unknown army (not USAF) pilot to his father-in-law, a relatively high ranking naval officer but also relatively unknown, add to the value, even if totally documented? Is it because it passed through the hands of the pilot? Or the naval officer? What else we don't really know is how it was originally acquired or its other history.

If someone offered a pistol formerly owned by Admiral Nimitz, I would want to know if he carried it, fired it, bought it, or just threw it in his closet after his son-in-law gave it to him. My questions about this PPK would be even more detailed, particularly since it was never owned by a well known historical figure. Sorry, but I think this is all a stretch. How much more would anybody pay than for the same pistol without its previous ownership? A shooter, I would say nothing. A collector?
 
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