2+2=? ( 1 2 )

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ruffitt, Feb 25, 2003.

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  1. ruffitt

    ruffitt *TFF Admin Staff* In Heaven Now

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    reedbuster
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 262
    (10/8/01 11:33:33 pm)
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    Florida:
    1 dead from anthrax
    1 hospitalized

    Tied to a letter handled by both men, mailed by a "middle eastern intern" prior to Sept.11


    Terrorist that flew the hijacked planes lived in Florida
    Terrorist asked about renting a crop duster in Florida.

    Was this a possible 'test' to see if thier homegrown anthrax would work? If so which house in Florida was it cultured in? Is our Gov. coming clean with us about it? Up till now they say that it is unrelated.

    What do yo think?


    twins
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 122
    (10/9/01 12:03:57 am)
    | Edit | Del 2+2=? A LIE in this case.
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    I think they are lying to us. They keep saying there is no reason to believe this is anything other than coincidence. I say, BS.

    How many cases have there been in the last 100 years and now we have two, in the same state, the same employer, the same letter "handled" by both. How many more before they come clean and say what is up. How many can they really treat, for how long and has the Pres and vice already started taking meds?

    We are being lied to, when the next person comes down withh it, then what we be told.

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 1816
    (10/9/01 12:08:59 am)
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    All I know is, I will NEVER again flip through an Enquirer or Star in the checkout line again while my wife pays even IF there's photos of Hillary's Alien lover.

    Seriously, and I apologize if I offended anyone by sick humor when one man is dead and another may be soon, what did you REALLY expect from the government?

    Yesterday, they didn't know much more than you.

    Today, they know more, and the info IS coming out pretty quickly, but they STILL don't know anything for sure.

    And in this climate, with people paying $500 for out-of-date Israeli Gas Masks that were curios only, for $12.95 on 9-10-01, what kind of panic do you think would have happened if yesterday the Government goes off half-cocked and starts screaming TERRORIST ATTACK!

    NOBODY would have gone to work today, ANYWHERE. That is EXACTLY what terrorists, or anyone that uses bugs and gas WANTS to happen....panic. As a weapon, bios and gas are LOUSY for what actual damage they do, but TREMENDOUS for reducing the effectiveness of the defense due to panic, or the need, real or perceived, to take precautions.

    Hell, Bradley was making plans to evacuate Omaha Beach on June 6, 1944 at 9:00am, and came a hair from making the request to Ike, you know why?

    One soldier saw men staggering in smoke and yelled "GAS!" at the top of his lungs...the attack stopped dead in that area...half the men of that battalion tried to run BACK in the water while the other half stopped shooting and advancing to try and struggle into masks under fire, and it spread like wildfire down the beach.

    Interestingly, the Nazis had enough tabrun and other second generation nerve gases at all the beaches that we didn't have a clue about, even that it existed, that our masks would NOT have stopped, that if Hitler had given the order, the ENTIRE invasion would have been halted, and the entire war changed.

    He also had the stuff at Stalingrad and didn't use it either...it's one of the mysteries of History why he didn't.

    The only plausible excuse is that he had been seriously gassed in WWI, and he thought the allies had the stuff too, and he couldn't risk it used in return against him and the Nazis.

    But bottom line is, there have been relatively FEW deaths in all of history attributed to bugs and gas weapons...and against a knowledgeable enemy, even semi-prepared, that does NOT panic, have been historically useless in battle. Against a backwards primitive hill people with no modern medicine or hygeine, clustered in shacks in the jungle? OK, pretty effective, I'll give you, but attractive even then only because it's CHEAP.

    Long story, but bottom line is you inhale anthrax, you die. Period. BUT...it is NOT highly contagious, and can only kill small numbers at a time. ANd what REAL difference is there to being at the wrong place at the wrong time when a bomb goes off? Just slower death...

    We do NOT need to devote alot of time to it...the guy who delivered it is either already dead of anthrax, died in a plane on 9-11, or, the WORST threat we face, is still alive and planning to go out in a blaze of glory.

    Worry about the car bombs, they will kill more than anthrax ever will.
    I'm so PROUD to be an AMERICAN...

    Edited by: polishshooter at: 10/9/01 11:38:31 pm

    BlackGun
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 1019
    (10/9/01 2:16:43 am)
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    Listen to Polish! Fear is our worst enemy! Remember the definition of the word "Terror"ist! We, the common people, can't stop what has happend, be calm, if it's our/mine/your time to go, it's gonna happen, so be brave and brush it off and continue living. Seriously! Sure there is current and present danger, that's something we, in this country have never faced. I have kept my 02 worth silent about the gas mask issue! Unless you have the proper filters and the mask is fitted to your face, no glasses extruding beyond the seal of the mask , beards, oiled skin ie, make up, certified ASA. Don't spend your money on something that won't do anything but hender your breathing and eye sight while your in a panic anyway. How many of you have ever dawn a gas/chemical agents mask anyway and worn it for any period of time? Would you even know how to put it on, what straps to pull first, what proceedures to even test it's effectiveness to make sure is doesn't leak. Have faith and trust! We were born to die, and we will! Live today, love, pray and ask forgiveness, gain pease with in your own self for any wrong doings, hug your children, tell them you love them, call your mom, dad tell them the same. make peace in your own heart. Treat each day as your last. Savor life today, for tomorrow you may die, face it! If you don't like this comment, OH WELL! Just ask yourself this! Are you prepared for the here after? But! It's not going to come down to that anyway. So don't fear! Everything our elected and appointed officials are doing, they are doind to their very best to perseve and protect us. Everything is on a need to know basis, and there are some things out there that these brave people are doing 24/7 that you don't need or even want to know about to keep us safe! So, I really don't want to hear the words "Bull Shit, their lying to us"! Kind of reminds me of a movie I once saw, a quote " can you handle the truth"? If you knew all the truth, ask yourself "could you handle the truth?" What could or would you do"? Not a damn thing but Bitch that "THEY " did it wrong or didn't do enough to protect our way of life! Do you not think that we don't have the same Bio chemical weapons they have? You bet we do! Our Government is doing the best they can do to perserve our way of life, so support them. They have almost begged us to go about our nornal routine daily way of life. "DO IT" We are at war, folks and it has been brought to our home land, where we thought it would never ever happen here!
    rules for survival: Sight alignment, Breath control, & Trigger Squeeze
    BlackGUN

    Edited by: BlackGun at: 10/9/01 7:19:45 am

    warpig883
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 685
    (10/9/01 8:40:35 pm)
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    Amen brother, I could not have said it better.
    Don't mind me, I am a blithering idiot:)

    Tac401
    Administrator
    Posts: 2400
    (10/9/01 8:59:21 pm)
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    ezSupporter
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    I say this, if it turns out that we are being attacked,
    then don't believe the politicians that tell you that you don't need a gas mask, if they REALLY believed that then they, their staff and family would NOT have one, I hate to say this to you folks but in my opinion, if you feel that something or someone presents a threat to you or anyone else than you MUST act and defend and do whatever it takes and use whatever you have at hand to do so, without getting into details I speak
    from experience and I care very much for ALL of you, the
    Govt. IS NOT or your local Govt. IS NOT going to inform
    you of ANY major crisis for fear of panic AND for fear of
    the Gen. public slowing down who they need to evacuate
    on a priority basis.

    The only way I can say this at this time is don't hesitate,
    if you feel in fear or in imenent danger then don't sit back,
    act immediately!

    This IS the time when all you preachers MUST sh*t or
    get off the pot!
    The Firearms Forum Vietnam Memories Bulletin Board Contact Administrator

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 1824
    (10/9/01 11:13:51 pm)
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    You're right, a gas mask, (and protective clothing, you'll need that too, some anthrax, other bio supertoxins like some marine animal poisons and bugs, and ALL nerve gases goes through skin, only first generation like chlorine, and phosgene, will masks alone stop, mustard will burn you severely anywhere, masks only keep your LUNGS from burning, and anyone that uses them mixes it with ademsite that goes through your skin and makes you vomit into the mask so you have to pull it off anyway,) MAY help. (And oh yeah, you need a dosimeter and test kit too, to see what antidote you need, you have THAT too, don't you?)

    And I also assume, like Bob and others have said, you've been TRAINED how to use a gas mask properly, haven't you?

    And some 2nd and 3rd generation gases are designed to make the activated charcoal in the filters emit CO so you will go to sleep forever anyway when you breath it, but that's probably the NICEST way to die, the rest are pretty messy...convulsions and bleeding and all...

    So unless you are going to walk around 24 hours a day in your protective mask AND chemical suit, or at least wrapped completely in duct tape...(we won't discuss heat stroke, the need to eat and drink, urinate or defecate, or the fact filters only last 3-12 hours anyway, OR are only designed for a specific agent, so you better carry about 12 different types of them to be sure....)

    You CANNOT defend against it BEFORE it's used...it's just a matter of pure luck. AND preemptive strikes...

    Now AFTER it's used...short term protection so you can rescue people, get supplies, water, etc, for your family that you've safely locked inside your home after closing off all windows, doors, vents, electric outlets, etc, etc with plastic and duct tape, MAYBE...if you have friends with gear who can "decon" you when you return...then MAYBE they'd be worth it.

    Leave it to the professionals, like Bob and the military.

    I'm just going to keep my AC in my car on "recirc" and hope and PRAY I stay "upwind..." when I travel. But I AM going to travel, just like always.

    No travel, no job. No job, no food. No food, I die anyway. Plus if everyone stops doing what we should be doing, damn the bugs and gas, AMERICA shuts down, we ALL starve...some more quickly than others... OK, I won't starve...but I can't live on Venison and catfish FOREVER....

    And I don't begrudge AT ALL if the politicians have protection...as much as I hate to say it, we NEED them, in time of war...

    Do you mind that they have Secret Service, pressurized limos, Airborne command centers, and bunkers in WVa mountains that you and I don't have?

    NO you DON'T. We need to do anything we can to AT LEAST protect the Pres., VP, Speaker, Senate Majority and Minority Leaders, and the House leaders to to have a chance at "succession" and continuing constitutional law in this country.

    Think about it.

    Yeah, maybe we DON'T need to protect EVERY congressman or woman, BUT, they do represent YOU....

    We need to "protect and defend the CONSTITUTION at all costs in time of war." Period. No matter if you are SWORN to do it or just a civilian.

    But, NOWHERE does it say we have to defend YOU or ME.

    It's our way of LIFE people...keep LIVING. There IS no alternative, if it's going to happen to you, it's going to happen to you, period.

    Just know anyone LEFT will avenge you. And avenge you HARD. THAT'S America..
    I'm so PROUD to be an AMERICAN...

    the real fredneck
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 392
    (10/10/01 5:08:24 am)
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    ...avenge me HARD? that's America

    thanks Polish I needed that

    Mr Man
    Member
    Posts: 9
    (10/10/01 7:06:26 am)
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    You should take into account that anthrax not only kills through inhalation or digestion, but it is quite deadly through exposior to the skin as well, i think that all these people who are buying gas masks now are the extremists, who do not think about their actions and are likely to take the mask off and pick something from their teeth after the visible threat is gone, i truely do believe that the idea of it being coincedance is BS but i do not think that the terrorist movements now have the ability to spread this across America, no sooner than anyone of the slightest middle eastern origin, or even has links to middle easterners does anything suspicious like try to rent a crop duster, the authorities will be notifiyed. Think about it, if they want to spread terror, set it up as a hoax, try to rent a crop duster and infect one or two people with anthrax, then sit back and watch American citizens fall apart mentally. sure it is a tragerdy but we can do very little. I am sorry at any loss of life but when Bin Laden is caught, he should not be killed, rather tied up in a public place allowing all citizens to go and kick him in the balls.

    just my thoughts,
    cheers,
    Mr Man

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 1830
    (10/11/01 12:28:42 am)
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    Now THAT's a fresh idea, Mr. Man, I liked it!

    The Anthrax in FLA probably stolen from a lab in Iowa, they can identify the strain, kinda rare...still no connection found to the terrorists...

    Just a thought, what are the odds the Enquirer or one of the other worthless rags in that building stole the anthrax THEMSELVES to do some kind of a scoop expose on it, never even knowing they got it or if they did, had no clue what it did or how it killed?

    They've done stupid stuff like this before for a sensational story...

    Just a thought...
    I'm so PROUD to be an AMERICAN...

    Investig8tor
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 115
    (10/11/01 8:09:23 am)
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    If it smells like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, chances are pretty good it is a duck.
    It would not be the first time Big Brother has kept information from us to prevent panic in the population.



    Mr Man
    Member
    Posts: 10
    (10/12/01 12:05:16 am)
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    Yes Big Brother may have kept information from Americans in the past, and they may do it again, but if they do think that this is the work of terrorists they would have already sourced out where they got the anthrax from and if it is anywhere in Afganistan, there would already be two or three F15's bombing it back to the stone age, (although that would not be hard) and if it originated from within the USA i feel that it then has been released accidentally by some dimwit who thought it was a cure for arthitis.

    America has nothing to fear about when it comes to this Anthrax outbreak!

    Investig8tor
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 120
    (10/12/01 3:47:49 pm)
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    What about the new case discovered today at NBC headquarters?

    Quack, Quack, Quack

    gun runner john
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 335
    (10/12/01 5:35:44 pm)
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    Mr Man, I think you're being very naive here, this could very possibly be terrorists, and perhaps the same ones.


    Mr Man
    Member
    Posts: 11
    (10/12/01 10:52:59 pm)
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    Not seeming to be naieve but as i am an Australian, i feel that i have an 'outsiders' point of veiw and i can see how badly American citizens are overreacting. My thoughts have not been 'tainted' if you will. By a want for revenge. I mean, do not get me wrong, i would love to see the people recponcible caught but too many Americans are staring at a wall 'cause they think there is a window. Sit back and look at the situation again with a different frame of mind.

    reedbuster
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 271
    (10/12/01 11:14:56 pm)
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    First of all, Welcome to the board MrMan, Secondly, it is hard for us to relax and get into another mindset when we as Americans are on the learning curve for this crap. I am sick of hearing Our phucked up press blaming this on ourselves and American policies. I wonder which policy it is that they hate so much, is it the one that provides food to thier starving nation or is it the one that provides economic help in the form of money, building material and aid workers to thier countries.
    "Arm yourselves, and be ye men of valour, and be in readiness for the conflict; for it is better for us to perish in battle than to look upon the outrage of our nation and our altar." Churchill - May 19, 1940, London.


    warpig883
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 694
    (10/13/01 2:23:16 am)
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    Don't really feel like thinking right now so I am just going to say I agree with Reedbuster all the way.
    Don't mind me, I am a blithering idiot:)

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 1869
    (10/13/01 6:41:23 pm)
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    Mr. Man! Welcome, AGAIN. Now we have at least TWO international members, the other I know of is from Sweden, but may be emigrating here, is at least planning to visit when he gets out of the Swedish Army.

    PLEASE keep your observations from abroad coming, they are refreshing and enlightening, and many Americans don't pay attention to world affairs until it bites us.

    And if I read it right, I believe Australia is offering military aid to the coalition too, so maybe US Green Berets and AUS SAS will be fighting side by side again, thank you for your support.

    And also, please give us some first hand insight into your new gun laws and their effect on crime, etc.

    And I think he's closer than most of us, I'm beginning to think this anthrax "scare" has little if anything to do with 9-11-01....MAY be OTHER terrorists, but now we know Anthrax is a pretty crappy "weapon" to do much actual damage, and the "terror" it's created is pretty insignificant, even compared to the old days of "bomb threats."

    I also think all the "fake" stuff is just that, hoaxes by sicko AMERICANS as pranks or maliciousness...

    I do NOT believe that the terrorists WILL NOT use some type of biotoxin or nerve agents, but Anthrax is pretty minor league stuff in the bugs and gas arena...

    They want bang for the buck, and I believe they have just the stuff. Hell, the Russians used some pretty nasty "new" stuff AGAINST them in the 80s, and when they "beat feet" and left so fast they left much equipment behind, you'd have to assume they left cannisters of that stuff behind, too.

    Heck, if it IS terrorists with the anthrax, it MAY be just to see our response, or to overload our CDC, Hospital Rooms, Pharmaceutical production,etc, with it geared towards anthrax, so when they hit with OTHER weapon's grade stuff we are even MORE unprepared...
    I'm so PROUD to be an AMERICAN...

    Mr Man
    Member
    Posts: 12
    (10/13/01 11:04:05 pm)
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    in light of recent events, i am starting to begin to believe that this is a deliberate attack because i have heard that now five people are infected. But this is likely to have no relation to the earlyer attacks, if the terrorists wanted to attack America dump the anthrax into water supplies, through a buildings airconditioning or anything to have a more drastic effect, i feel that this is the work of 'amatures' if you will coz if it were international terrorists every second house would have gotten a letter, forcing the American medical system to overcrowd.

    On a different note, polishshooter the Australian gun laws are a load of BS, after the tradgic murders in tasmania, we are no longer allowed to have any semi-automatic rifles or firearms without having a special license which is very hard to get. The idea was to stop mass loss of life but they recalled registered firearms, and if someone was willing to shoot another person, they would do so with a firearms which was not registered. Thus they removed all of our semi autos leaving us with bolt actions as the closest thing to s-a's.
    ***Note*** pump action shotguns were banned but pump action rifles, and lever action rifles were not... go figure

    Tac401
    Administrator
    Posts: 2430
    (10/13/01 11:09:33 pm)
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    ezSupporter
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    Welcome Aboard Mr Man!
     
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