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Discussion Starter #1
I’ve been thinking about getting a 22LR plinker, and from the posts I’ve been reading I have pretty much settled on a Ruger 10/22 but I have a couple of questions.

I’ve been watching 22LR auctions on a couple of auction pages and I see S&W 15 22s and Colt Umarex 22s selling for about $450+. My LGS sells S&W 15 22s for $449. The Ruger 10/22 sells for a lot less money… A LOT less. Yet in any thread that asks what is the best 22LR plinker the S&W and the Colt is not even mentioned once. The people who know, { The people here } seem to be more or less in agreement that the best 22LR would be either a Ruger 10/22 or a Marlin 60.

But then why the huge price difference? I can get a 10/22 for right around $200 dollars. This is a no frills rifle. Black synthetic stock, blue barrel un threaded, iron sights, and a scope mount adapter. For another $150 I can get an “ Archangel “ stock turning this simple rifle into something that looks like it would be at home on the battlefield. Adjustable stock, hand rail, and all.

Can it be that the buying public is so locked up in the concept of the AR platform that they stampede to the counter waving their cash to pay more for a lesser quality firearm? Well it’s possible. Obummer got elected twice so there are a whole lot of stupid Americans out there.

Or is there another reason. I work hard for my money. We all do. I want the best for the least. I want to spend $50 for a 100 yard Tack Hammer that will last 10,000,000 rounds and still be a 100 yard Tack Hammer. And… I also want it to look cool.

So, ( Here we go again. ) Is there a comparison that makes the AR platform 22s worth the extra money? Or is it all just furniture and fashion.
 

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I'll probably get slapped for this, but it's furniture and fashion as you so eloquently put it. It all comes down to a) are you going to pimp it, or b) are you going to shoot it? At the ranges here we see a few pimped out 10/22s and they're gorgeous, for the most part. But we see a lot more carbines and TDs firing hundreds of rounds per day and people having a blast with them. Every time I start looking at the stuff that's available for my 10/22, I turn off the computer and head to range to shoot it to remind myself why I bought it.

(BUT, FWIW, I shoot my Marlins more than my Ruger)
 

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If you want accuracy, get a marlin 60. I have an old 80's one. It is amazingly accurate. I can't speak for the new ones. My dad has a ruger 10/22 with a bull barrel. It's ok, but I prefer a marlin. And, the marlin is 175 bucks on buds gun shop.
 

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I’ve been thinking about getting a 22LR plinker, and from the posts I’ve been reading I have pretty much settled on a Ruger 10/22 but I have a couple of questions.

I’ve been watching 22LR auctions on a couple of auction pages and I see S&W 15 22s and Colt Umarex 22s selling for about $450+. My LGS sells S&W 15 22s for $449. The Ruger 10/22 sells for a lot less money… A LOT less. Yet in any thread that asks what is the best 22LR plinker the S&W and the Colt is not even mentioned once. The people who know, { The people here } seem to be more or less in agreement that the best 22LR would be either a Ruger 10/22 or a Marlin 60.

But then why the huge price difference? I can get a 10/22 for right around $200 dollars. This is a no frills rifle. Black synthetic stock, blue barrel un threaded, iron sights, and a scope mount adapter. For another $150 I can get an “ Archangel “ stock turning this simple rifle into something that looks like it would be at home on the battlefield. Adjustable stock, hand rail, and all.

Can it be that the buying public is so locked up in the concept of the AR platform that they stampede to the counter waving their cash to pay more for a lesser quality firearm? Well it’s possible. Obummer got elected twice so there are a whole lot of stupid Americans out there.

Or is there another reason. I work hard for my money. We all do. I want the best for the least. I want to spend $50 for a 100 yard Tack Hammer that will last 10,000,000 rounds and still be a 100 yard Tack Hammer. And… I also want it to look cool.

So, ( Here we go again. ) Is there a comparison that makes the AR platform 22s worth the extra money? Or is it all just furniture and fashion.
It's kinda like do you want cream, and sugar, in your coffee, or just coffee? How much do ya want to spend? Will you be shooting competition with the rifle, or just plinking?
 

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Being a cheapskate and a half...I went Marlin 795...then pimped it.


Marlin 795 at the Black Friday sale 2010...minus the $25 rebate at the time...$75
Ramline 70 stock @ Numrich for $15
ATI SKS Retrofit kit to make it a folder...$10
Simmons Black Diamond scope on clearance for $30
Shooter's Ridge Bipod on clearance for $20
Weaver See-thru Rings $10
Razor Sling on clearance $8
Marlin Adjustable Rear Sight @ Numrich for $10
leftover Acraglass to do pillar bedding...free
DIY triggerjob...Free

Watching owners of pimped-out 1022's cry when you beat 'em at the range with a sub-$200 rifle...PRICELESS :)

The barrel on a 795 is button-rifled micro-groove...which gives evil precision when mated with the proper ammo :AR15firing:
 

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Being a cheapskate and a half...I went Marlin 795...then pimped it.


Marlin 795 at the Black Friday sale 2010...minus the $25 rebate at the time...$75
Ramline 70 stock @ Numrich for $15
ATI SKS Retrofit kit to make it a folder...$10
Simmons Black Diamond scope on clearance for $30
Shooter's Ridge Bipod on clearance for $20
Weaver See-thru Rings $10
Razor Sling on clearance $8
Marlin Adjustable Rear Sight @ Numrich for $10
leftover Acraglass to do pillar bedding...free
DIY triggerjob...Free

Watching owners of pimped-out 1022's cry when you beat 'em at the range with a sub-$200 rifle...PRICELESS :)

The barrel on a 795 is button-rifled micro-groove...which gives evil precision when mated with the proper ammo :AR15firing:
Oh man, I might have to get one of those!
 

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Been thinking about getting a pair of pic rails & bolting them to the sides of the stock for some lights & lasers...
Haven't been to an organized range event in slightly over two years...since just before the Twins were born...
just practicing in my backyard range...so most folks will have forgotten all about the Evil Black Marlin...
so I should be able to sucker a few 1022/CZ bettors with a Tacti-fool-lookin critter...>:)

Folding stocks aren't usually known for precision...but there is a method to getting the best out of 'em...

the other trick is to play Dumb *******, wear overalls, fluff up the Southern Drawl, then whip out Mr. EBM...
(and hope nobody recognizes me & what I'm up to...lol) so they get all overconfident & sloppy...

Oh...and rebox the Eley Tenex Biathelon ammo into Remington Golden Bullet boxes...
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I'll probably get slapped for this, but it's furniture and fashion as you so eloquently put it. It all comes down to a) are you going to pimp it, or b) are you going to shoot it? At the ranges here we see a few pimped out 10/22s and they're gorgeous, for the most part. But we see a lot more carbines and TDs firing hundreds of rounds per day and people having a blast with them. Every time I start looking at the stuff that's available for my 10/22, I turn off the computer and head to range to shoot it to remind myself why I bought it.

(BUT, FWIW, I shoot my Marlins more than my Ruger)
Thanks for the feedback. The answer to the question you asked is... B... I want to shoot it, and I want to shoot it really really well. I want a sub 1 inch 10 round grouping at 100 yards with iron sights.

I will probably never get such a thing but you set a goal and work towards it and enjoy the ride while getting to where you are trying to go.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
It's kinda like do you want cream, and sugar, in your coffee, or just coffee? How much do ya want to spend? Will you be shooting competition with the rifle, or just plinking?
For spending... as little as possible while still getting amazing quality and pin point accuracy. I want to shoot it and shoot it well. I am not looking to impress anyone but myself. Not into competition shooting. Don't need a laser may not even need a scope.

The only reason I am considering anything tactical is due to the adjustable stock. I like a shorter length of pull.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Being a cheapskate and a half...I went Marlin 795...then pimped it.


Marlin 795 at the Black Friday sale 2010...minus the $25 rebate at the time...$75
Ramline 70 stock @ Numrich for $15
ATI SKS Retrofit kit to make it a folder...$10
Simmons Black Diamond scope on clearance for $30
Shooter's Ridge Bipod on clearance for $20
Weaver See-thru Rings $10
Razor Sling on clearance $8
Marlin Adjustable Rear Sight @ Numrich for $10
leftover Acraglass to do pillar bedding...free
DIY triggerjob...Free

Watching owners of pimped-out 1022's cry when you beat 'em at the range with a sub-$200 rifle...PRICELESS :)

The barrel on a 795 is button-rifled micro-groove...which gives evil precision when mated with the proper ammo :AR15firing:
Nice looking gun, but I have another question. Why the folding stock? You did go out of your way to get one what are the advantages of having that option?
 

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siplace, this is just my own opinion but if reliability and accuracy (and cost), the simple 10/22's and the Marlins and others, are, IMO, as good as it gets.
A few years ago when all the AR Platforms were coming out in 22LR., I "had" to have me one, so I bought me one running around $550 at the time.
Accuracy....forget it!!!! It was "okay" as a plinker and all the "cool" things that could be added. But I'm always after accuracy and durability.
I had my AR-22LR for about as long as the "coolness" wore off...just my opinion.
 

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All of the AR style I've shot/ handled felt really off balanced. Nothing like an AR15. I like my .22s keept minimalist, lightweight, and simple as can be. While a 10lbs Target style 10/22 with a high magnification scope serves it's purpose, so does a 4.5 pound Marlin with nothing altered. I don't like "tactical" .22LRs.
 

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My son has the Colt AR in 22. It looks cool and when we go to the range everyone likes it. Its very accurate and never FTF or Jams on him.

I have the Ruger 10-22 and love it.

Ruger stock 1.jpg

I won this stock in the TFF giveaways.
 

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Thanks for the feedback. The answer to the question you asked is... B... I want to shoot it, and I want to shoot it really really well. I want a sub 1 inch 10 round grouping at 100 yards with iron sights.

I will probably never get such a thing but you set a goal and work towards it and enjoy the ride while getting to where you are trying to go.

In that case my 2 cents would be to go for the Marlin. It is a bit more accurate out of the box than the Ruger especially when you're shooting long, and the money you save can go for more ammo !
 

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siplace:

10/22 can be very accurate if you buy the Target model or you modify yours with an after market Match barrel and better trigger parts. One of my 10/22's has all the Volquartsen Match parts and will shoot 1/2 inch five shot groups at 50 yds all day long. It is one accurate rifle. A friend has the top of the line Ruger 10/22 Target version (with after market trigger parts) and it shoot right along side my Volquartsenized gun. He has less money in his version than I do in mine.

10/22's in standard form are guns for the masses with safe heavy triggers that shoot well for what they are and, that is, not a Match gun. The tolerances are loose, the barrel pedestrian, but the reliability is stellar. They will shoot anything and operate in the worst of environments. When you get the Target version or use aftermarket Match level parts some of the reliability and versatility of ammo selection goes away but the reward is much better accuracy if you pay the money.

There are a bunch of military looking 22 semi-auto's on the market today. But some are cheaply made not using much steel and aluminum but a Zinc alloy that is not nearly as strong or a wear resistant. Choose one of those wisely and remember you often get what you pay for and often it is just the name you are buying.

As for AR based 22 rifles, there are two classes. The first is the AR clone guns designed to look like a centerfire AR but really and actually a 22 framed gun. That is, not as robust as a real AR lower. The second class are real AR lowers with a 22 conversion kit upper. I have a TacSol 22LR upper conversion for my AR-15 lower and it is a combo that is hard to beat from an accuracy point of view. I have not tested it against my Volquartsenized Match heavy steel barreled 10/22 but in the few test I have done it seems extremely accurate. It to has a Match barrel and is superbly designed and machined. But again the investment is very large.

For plinking, a standard Ruger 10/22 is an excellent choice with over 50 years of production and reliability that is great. For better accuracy any of the Match grade parts for the 10/22 or the top of the line Ruger Target version make sense. I think a lot of research is necessary to buy one of the other military clone 22 rifles because their ultimate durability might be limited by the manufacturers choice of materials. If you already own a real AR-15 then a 22LR conversion upper could make sense for you.

LDBennett
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Thanks everyone I appreciate the advice.

It's kind of worrisome though. I suppose I can understand making an Airsoft gun that looks like an AR or an AK. Airsoft is a toy. Some of them are very sophisticated toys but they are still toys. There is no background check for Airsoft. I know... Don't say that too loud a libtard will think its a good idea.

I guess that best way to sum it all up is to describe how I felt when I was looking at a Mossberg 715 22LR. These look almost exactly like an AR-15. Except... The forward assist is molded into the gun, there is no selector switch, the magazine release looks like a selector switch but the selector switch is in the wrong place and there is no battery release lever. That molded FA really put me off. It is all image. No substance.

Now I know that a $200 Marlin 60 or Ruger 10/22 will out perform a $450 (and up) S&W15 22 or a Colt Umarex. Its all just image.

To me a fire arm means more performance than image. Maybe that is part of the reason I like my Glock so much. Image on a Glock? Not so much. ( I know I am gonna get jumped up and down on for this. ) Performance on a Glock... Oh yeah it's got all of that and a bag of chips... For me... Your mileage may vary.

Also a "standard" rifle with a black synthetic stock and a stainless or even blue barrel has a charm to it. It is that same charm I think my Glock has.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
siplace:

For plinking, a standard Ruger 10/22 is an excellent choice with over 50 years of production and reliability that is great. For better accuracy any of the Match grade parts for the 10/22 or the top of the line Ruger Target version make sense. I think a lot of research is necessary to buy one of the other military clone 22 rifles because their ultimate durability might be limited by the manufacturers choice of materials. If you already own a real AR-15 then a 22LR conversion upper could make sense for you.

LDBennett
What I am using right now is either a S&W 15 Sportster {Her AR} or a Sig M400 {My AR} and a CMMG Bravo conversion kit. Both of these are accurate and reliable. The Sig much more so than the S&W. But I will never fire another 22LR out of either fire arm again.

What I found up inside of the bolt carrier of the Sig after my last outing horrified me. What a mess that round makes. I've been nervous about that conversion kit and the mess since the first time I used it. Buying that was a mistake. It's a fine bit of equipment well made and functions great. I see no drop off of accuracy between 22LR rounds and .223/5.56 rounds inside 100 yards. It is a tack hammer. The problem is the mess a 22LR round makes inside a AR-15. If there is that much soot in the bolt carrier how much is in the air tube or fouling the gas block?

I have to check out the rules here for posting an item for sale.

I looked into dedicated 22LR uppers. Mostly the ones available from CMMG and Chiappa. These are as expensive as a full AR clone 22LR. My skinflint soul won't let me pay full price and get only half a gun.

Especially now that I learn that for half the cost I can get either a Marlin 60 or a Ruger 10/22 that will perform as well if not better. I am not married to the AR platform. I like it very much but part of that is the full function of the platform when shooting 5.56.

I guess the choice of either Marlin or Ruger will come down to me standing in my LGS and pulling each one up and sighting it a few times. The feel the alignment with my eye and the comfort of shooting lefty with a right hand gun. No matter how good the gun is, if you're not comfortable with it on your shoulder it's not going to work well for you.
 

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Nice looking gun, but I have another question. Why the folding stock? You did go out of your way to get one what are the advantages of having that option?
The Ramline 70 ceased production in 1996, due to Bill Clinton's AWB.
Many were languishing in stockpiles until the ban was lifted in 2004...
but by then, folks had forgotten all about 'em...so Numrich had a boatload just lying around...
consequently, when they put a $90 stock on Clearance Sale for $14.98, word passed quickly in the Marlin Realm...
and they were out of 'em in a few days...I got a couple myself ;)
My last empty one awaits a Marlin 7000 or 880SQ, or a New Marlin 795-HV...


The advantage is packing size
...easier to toss in a pack/duffel bag or truck box, much like the 70PSS...
The synthetic stock can take a beating far better than wood can...so its the perfect drag-around-anywhere .22lr :)

Downside of folding stocks tends to be instability in the arm itself...so you REALLY have to do that part right.


If I were Ramline, I'd re-do the stock to a more modern look, and instead of the standard AR-15 grip they originally used,
use one of the more ergonomic ones available today...
 

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For those that don't know there are two ways to use your AR as a 22LR gun.

The problems expressed by siplace is a conversion unit that uses the stock 223 barrel/upper with an insert that does a conversion of the chamber and usually a drop in 22LR bolt and recoil mechanism.

The other is a separate total upper. The lower is only used for the trigger/hammer and a magazine well. The upper is complete and totally replaces the 223 upper. This is a much better way to get an AR in 22LR. The TacSol upper is the way I went for excellent results.

I would also point out to siplace that you get what you pay for. You want accuracy and durability you have to pay the price. There are many AR looking rifles in 22LR that will not meet that criteria. But we all have budgets and have to stay inside them. Just be careful to not waste your money with a sub-parr 22LR semi-auto.

LDBennett
 
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