30-30 vs .223 bump in the night

Discussion in 'Self Defense Tactics & Weapons' started by Film495, Jun 10, 2019.

  1. SeeMor Guns

    SeeMor Guns Well-Known Member

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    Give me a good pump shotgun and 3 inch #4 turkey loads. The effects, inside of an average house, are devastating. At 10 feet, that load puts a fist sized hole completely through a pork ham. I have tested it in my back yard. Put 1 or 2 invaders down like that, the rest lose their ambitions in a hurry.
    The shotgun, loaded with 6+1 and 6 extras, is backed up by 84 rounds of hollow point 9mm, loaded and ready in 17 round mags. Both are within arms reach of my bed any time I am in it. And that is just what is waiting on my side of the bed.
     
  2. soundguy

    soundguy Well-Known Member

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    I tend to agree with the 30-30 argument over the 223. ( and 12g pump imho trumps either ). I have a 357 wheelgun, a 45 acp with double stack mag, and a single stack .380 at hand and a 12g pump in the bedroom. Honestly, the 3-5-7 is always my first grab if I hear something. I don't feel undergunned even with only 6. If I have to retreat the shotgun loaded with magnum buck is my next grab. Barring a herd of rhino invading, I feel fairly safe with the stopping power of either. ). Of a 30-30 or .223 at self defense range? The 30-30 is just so balistically superior, especially with flat point or lead round points...DRT should be easy to achieve. Also, I'd feel better doing a butstroke for close quarters combat with my 336 marlin vs a plastic stock /hand clamp ar pistol. Luckily anything mentioned should do fine.
     
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  3. soundguy

    soundguy Well-Known Member

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    agreed. In case of multiple invaders, I have to think that after the first couple hit the express checkout lane quickly, that the rest may decide to go somewhere else.
     
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  4. SilasW

    SilasW Well-Known Member

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    Since this thread was started, I had an experience that tested my preparedness. We live out of town, not exactly out in the middle of the woods, but no neighbors real close. My driveway leading to the asphalt road is rutted and rough, can't see the house from the road. Needless to say we seldom get company. A few weeks ago, I was sitting up watching an old western movie on TV. It was 10:00 at night and Mrs. Silas had gone to bed. Our Husky dog was lying at my feet and snapped her head up and growled. Couple of seconds later someone rattled the door. I keep an XD40 close by and a SD Remington 870 by the other couch. Picked up the XD and went to the door. Turned on the porch light and could see a skinny meth-head looking woman with big pink streaks in her hair. Slung the door open and she ran like she was on fire. Jumped and cleared the porch steps out into the drive. There was some sort of SUV type car parked there, had to come come in with lights off. Any vehicle that pulls up would normally shine the lights onto the living room window.
    When I stepped out and positioned myself alongside the house the car slammed it in reverse and tore backwards almost taking out the old fence that is on either side. There's a drop off where the drive turns and they drove off it. I heard the car bottom out as they went off it. It went on down the drive tearing up the underside on every rut.
    Never called the Sheriff's Dept. They are pretty much a day late and dollar short on anything that happens here. I had no description I could give, save the pink streaked meth-head. No shots fired and I checked my equipment shed for anything stolen. Stayed up the rest of the night in case of a return visit, but nothing.
    Luckily it was just a learning experience. Looking back, I had time to get the shotgun, which IMO would have been a better choice. Also a quick check out the window to the drive would have let me know there was a vehicle with an unknown number of people. Hindsight, but still a learning situation.
     
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  5. tuckerd1

    tuckerd1 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator Supporting Member

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    @SilasW, I have had similiar happen. As the car was fleeing I let off a few shots overhead to let them know they had my attention.

    I have a 9mm semi, a 38 revolver and 20ga pump with #4 buck within reach.
     
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  6. Alaska444

    Alaska444 Well-Known Member

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    Tactically. No difference.

    Legally, big difference.

    Shoot to kill can get a person charged and is NOT covered by most states self defense. Shoot to stop an Imminent threat of bodily harm ir death is.
     
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  7. SilasW

    SilasW Well-Known Member

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    If you shoot center mass, odds are the bad guy is going to die. I'm OK with that. Head shots and "knee capping" are for unrealistic Hollywood movies. If the adrenaline is pumping and you miss CM resulting in a hit to the head or extremities that's fine. As long as you STOP the THREAT. The bad guy might deserve 30 rounds after they hit the ground screaming but you can't justify it. It's bad enough to have to deal with these people in the first place. Why let them ruin your life by answering the LEO questions the wrong way. Anything other than you feared for your life and fired to stop the threat will likely put you in jail. Even the lowest scumbag has someone looking to cash in on their death/injury. Unfortunately you need to make sure you are considered the victim, not them.
     
  8. Alaska444

    Alaska444 Well-Known Member

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    I have a 20 ga with #4 Buckshot and one of my 556/223 ARs by my bedside.
     
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  9. CCHolderinMaine

    CCHolderinMaine Garandaholic Supporting Member

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    Still just semantics.
    If you shoot at someone and you don't shoot to kill, what are you doing? Shooting to warn? In virtually every state, you are not defending yourself from a lethal threat if you shoot to warn.
    If you can shoot to warn, you can retreat.
    The only justified shooting is one that you made because you feared for your life. If you fear for your life, you shoot to kill.
    You go into court and say "I just shot him in the leg to warn him" You're going to jail.
    You pull the trigger until the gun is empty. Anything less is premeditated.
     
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  10. Alaska444

    Alaska444 Well-Known Member

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    True but lawyers live in semantics.

    We were cautioned in our CCW classes yo never say kill. Always stop.

    I can't quote a specific case but folks have condemned themselves by spouting off after a legitimate self defense.

    The Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network likewise repeats this in just about all their training videos as well.

    http://concealednation.org/2018/06/...-shoot-to-wound-need-to-abandon-that-mindset/
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 2, 2019
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  11. CCHolderinMaine

    CCHolderinMaine Garandaholic Supporting Member

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    I never said what you should SAY that you did.
    One of the basic rules of firearms...you never point a gun at anything you don't intend to destroy. If you're not willing to kill what you're shooting, don't point the gun at it.
    I'd wager more people get into trouble after a shooting when they try and mitigate the fact that what they did was try and kill someone.
    You waver a tiny bit from "I was sure he/she was going to kill me" and you've opened the door for the attorneys to make you the bad guy.
    I agree, don't say kill, just keep shaking and shivering telling everybody who'll listen that he was trying to kill me.

    Sounds good, just too neat and tidy.
    If someone pulls a gun on me and I really think he's going to kill me. I'm honestly not sure how I would react, but assuming I do well, I'm pulling my gun and shooting. If I hit him in the shoulder, how long is it before he stops? Probably not as long as it takes him to pull his trigger. Probably not as long as it takes for me to pull mine again.
    Of course you don't jump up and say "I was trying to kill him".
    I disagree with that article when it says "flash the gun"
    That breaks every general gun rule and CC rule I've ever read.
     
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  12. carver

    carver Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    It's a sad situation we live in today. We have to defend ourselves against thieves, politicians, and lawyers, if we ever have to defend our on lives. We had better make double sure that we are lawyered up, and knowledgeable about what we can, and can not do, to defend ourselves, our family, and our property. I live in TX, and we have different laws than some other states. And all states have different laws than others. If we do not prepare for the fall out of shooting a BG, before we get started, we just may end up in jail ourselves.
     
  13. Moonweasel

    Moonweasel New Member

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    My home defense gun is a Springfield XDs .45 that holds 7 rounds and I’m confident using it. I really think that confidence is the key to home defense. I think that many factors weigh into choosing the right weapon for in the home protection. For instance, will over penetration be an issue for you. It certainly would be if you live in an apartment or you have children between you and the bad guy. The 30-30 and .223 will over penetrate if you miss your intended target. However, once again I would stress confidence in your ability to hit your target square.
     
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