[Mr645]

As someone new to these calibers, I picked up some .357 FMJ and a few boxes of 38 special FMJ, but for the first time I have a compact revolver to carry at times.
From what I can figure, 357 mag is going to hit harder than 9mm. I have a full size revolver chambered in 9mm, 6" barrel. This new 2" barrel version is in 357/38 special.
I'm thinking for the range 38 special will be better, but what about for carry, personal defense? Is 38 plenty

Thanks

My revolvers are both Chiappa Rhinos, 6" 9mm and a 2" 357/38
I have been carrying a Walther P22 and a Beretta 92X compact 9mm. While some say 22 is too light for defense, I think the fact that multiple hits on target very quickly from 22 would be very effective. But added a snubby to the mix. My first 357 caliber handgun

 

[Hawg]

A .357 will definitely hit harder than a .38 but it will also have much more recoil. A .22 is better than a sharp stick but not by a lot. Multiple hits or even one will put somebody down but probably not right away unless you shut down the central nervous system. Somebody pumped up on drugs will take longer to put down. In that case a .38 may not be adequate. Whatever you decide I would use the FMJ for range use and get some HP's for defense.

 

[Larry Isaacs]

In my opinion, the 38SPL and 38SPL+ have plenty of power to stop most attacks. I find that in a small barreled gun, I can recover faster with the 38SPL than a .357 Mag. You are going to lose much of the power of a.357 in a 2-inch barreled weapon. The 38 SPL is already slower than the MAG and while you will lose some speed, in a close encounter the 38SPL will get the job done. If you were asking about a 4-inch barreled weapon I would lean toward the MAG.
Thank about all of the years that police departments carried 38SPL.
If you are talking about a J-framed weapon, for me it is the 38SPL+.

Good luck

Larry

 

[RossoRacer]

38 Special was used by law enforcement for YEARS, so I figure it's sufficient. Whichever you use for personal defense, I recommend having extra of that one on hand to stay proficient with at the range, just in case you have to use it.

 

[Mr645]

38 Special was used by law enforcement for YEARS, so I figure it's sufficient. Whichever you use for personal defense, I recommend having extra of that one on hand to stay proficient with at the range, just in case you have to use it.

Range is easy, I go 3 or 4 times a month, probably shoot at least 700 rounds a month. A 20 box of defense ammo lasts forever, I'll shoot a few at the range, are sure the gun cycles nicely, but most likely I'll never fire a gun outside of a range. Just want to be prepared.

 

[ms6852]

I carry a .357 with a 3" barrel. Practicing with .38 at the range is a good idea and more economical. I assure you that you should also practice with what you plan to carry. If you are going to carry only .357 than you must practice enough with .357 because the recoil is enough of a difference where you could miss what you are aiming at, which is not good if it is for self defense. I believe that the .38 is enough for self defense as I believe that the 22 lr is. It is all about your training and confidence in a high stress scenario.

 

[Alaska444]

I have a couple of revolvers in 357. I don't shoot 38 sp at all anymore since they are only a bit of 200 ft-lbs of muzzle energy like a .380. My Ruger SP101 full 357 loads are a pretty good wack on your hand. But, with practice, they become very manageable. So, I no longer use the 38 sp any longer. Practice is what makes the difference.

If you want to know about the 38 sp, read the Miami FBI shootout and why they abandoned the 38 sp. Note, that they also found the 9mm an inadequate firearm as well. 38 sp is enough to deter most ordinary people, but someone that is motivated like the Miami shootout folks, you will need more than that.

April 11, 1986: FBI Miami Shootout Forces Changes in Police Firepower - History and Headlines

On April 11, 1986, a tragic shootout between 8 FBI agents and 2 bank robbers in Miami, Florida, resulted in the deaths of 2 agents and both suspects.

www.historyandheadlines.com

The FBI moved for a short time after this to the 10mm but found many officers couldn't handle the recoil of the 10mm. My Glock 40 is an easy gun to shoot but the 9 inch slide really tames the recoil. They abandoned the 10mm, developed the 40 mm and upgraded the 9mm ammo.

But in a firefight, get your rife or shotgun. The handgun is your tool to get to the long gun.

(Mind you, I have never been in a firefight, nor have I ever been in a real fist fight. I am not a fighter, but I have read and studied plenty of what real fighters and warriors have written. Get proficient with your daily carry, whatever it is, learn the laws of your state, and study from the folks who have been in firefights. Knowledge is power)

 

[DCAN]

For many years I bet my life on a .357 wheel gun. For range, 38 special is fine. Just be sure you shoot a bit of 357 so you are familiar with it. For defense carry, there is NO WAY I'd rely on 38 special. It has proven itself inadequate since it's inception. I did, and would still, carry a 125 grain hollow point load. With that said, if the full house loads are just too much to shoot accurately, a 38 special +P+ load with a hollow point would be a distant second choice.

 

[bigbuckdn]

With the 2 inch the 38 with +p ammo your best bet

 

[NeoBlackdog]

Your choice of revolver will help mitigate the recoil of full blown .357 rounds. The Rhino, unlike most revolvers, has the barrel lined up with the bottom chamber in the cylinder. This lowers the bore axis significantly and will reduce the muzzle flip. I'd shoot the heck out of 38's at the range, but for carry put in the big dogs and use the .357 Magnums. Prayers that you never have to let them off the leash in anger!

 

[MisterEd]

You are going to lose much of the power of a.357 in a 2-inch barreled weapon.

Ditto this.

4" is about the shortest barrel a .357 Mag can effectively develop the velocity and energy from it's typically slower powder loadings. Anything shorter and it loses its 'magnum' capabilities pretty quickly, and in a 2" it's really useless.

Modern powders and bullets have transformed the .38 Special into a very formidable round in a 2" snub and even better in a longer barrel.

 

[NeoBlackdog]

Ditto this.

4" is about the shortest barrel a .357 Mag can effectively develop the velocity and energy from it's typically slower powder loadings. Anything shorter and it loses its 'magnum' capabilities pretty quickly, and in a 2" it's really useless.

Modern powders and bullets have transformed the .38 Special into a very formidable round in a 2" snub and even better in a longer barrel.

Use your Google-fu and look up 'ballistics by the inch'. You'll be amazed how much more velocity a .357 produces over a .38 in a 2" barrel.
For instance, from a 2" barrel a Federal 125 grain .357 load deliver 949 FPS. That same Federal bullet but launched from a .38 Special will only reach 700 FPS. That's more than 20% more velocity and that will equate to more foot-pounds of energy.

 

[Alaska444]

Ditto this.

4" is about the shortest barrel a .357 Mag can effectively develop the velocity and energy from it's typically slower powder loadings. Anything shorter and it loses its 'magnum' capabilities pretty quickly, and in a 2" it's really useless.

Modern powders and bullets have transformed the .38 Special into a very formidable round in a 2" snub and even better in a longer barrel.

I carry a Ruger SP101 with 2.25 inch barrel quite frequently and no, it is not at all "useless."

I would be glad to shoot you with it to see if it really is useless and see what happens.

But here is a the ballistics of one of the Buffalo Bore Tactical loads for short barrels:

"Item 19G/20-125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point bullet @ 1,225 fps from a 2.5-inch S&W mod. 66 barrel. Designed to mushroom violently, yet hold together and penetrate deeply-roughly 12 to 14 inches in human tissue.

➤ 1,109 fps (341 ft. lbs.) -- S&W mod. 340PD 1-7/8-inch barrel
➤ 1,225 fps (416 ft. lbs.) -- S&W mod. 66 2-1/2-inch barrels
➤ 1,322 fps (485 ft. lbs.) -- S&W mod. 65 3-inch barrels
➤ 1,445 fps (579 ft. lbs.) -- S&W Mt. Gun 4-inch barrel
➤ 1,388 fps (535 ft. lbs.) -- Colt Python 6-inch barrel'

Tactical Short Barrel Lower Recoil Low Flash 357 Mag - G

Tactical Short Barrel Lower Recoil Low Flash 357 Magnum Ammo - 125 gr. Jacketed Hollow Point (1,225fps/M.E. 416 ft. lbs.) - 20 Round Box

www.buffalobore.com

 

[Grizzly2]

My two little revolvers are both Charter Arms. One is a 2" 38 Undercover and the other a 3" 44 Special. Is the 38 adequate for self defense? Is the 357 better and how much better? That will depend on you. Can you handle a full power 357 in the bullet weight you choose? Your Rhino has about a 12#+ double action trigger pull. That is how you need to learn to shoot this and not rely on single action. That 12+ is going to take some time for you to develop good accuracy with. Start with 38s until you learn how much finger to put on the trigger and see how different amounts tend to pull the shot left and right. The same goes for your grip. Don't cheat and use single action because you won't have time if you ever need to use it.

Is 38 special it adequate? Probably not, though expanding bullets have come along way. In my 38 snub, I just use wadcutters loaded a bit hotter than the target variety. Many hp loads can't expand at the low velocity from a 2", so the flat nose wadcutters are more effective in flesh than an unexpanded hp which just acts like a round nose which have terrible reputations as fight stoppers, just as they did in 9mm before hp rounds became better.

From what I hear, the 357 factory rounds sold today are nowhere near as hot as the old traditional 357 125 gr hp rounds from years ago. If you can tolerate 357 and if you can tolerate some of the hotter brands of 357 that can be bought from mfgs like Underwood or Buffalo, use them. Do some homework and see what is out there, how far they penetrate and expand or do they over penetrate. The modern 357 rounds may be a good compromise.

You lose alot of velocity with 2", that's why I like 3", but don't believe those who say a 2" 357 is worthless. It is hotter than a 2" 38 +p. You just have to find one using low muzzle flash powder and see if you can tolerate it and shoot one at night and see if it blinds you more than the 38+p. The other problem with 357 is the noise they generate indoors - even outdoors without hearing protection. Many of us older shooters from before the years of excellent hearing protection are about deaf by now. No fun and the constant ringing in your ears can be maddening for some. Magnums without hearing protection will accelerate that and there is no cure once it happens. The nerve fibers in your ears which look like little trees will look like the hillside after Mount St Helens blew and knowcked them all down decades ago. They never will grow back and neither will your hearing. Just the constant ringing.

See if you can eventually keep all your double action shots fired at a good clip inside of a 9" plate. If you are missing the target or hitting the edges, they are more than you can handle and you are responsible for where all those misses go. The Rhino is an interesting revolver. I've never handled one and probably never will, but many seem to like them.

 

[Bill DeShivs]

No handgun is a death ray.
There are psychological stops: I see a gun. I'll stop. I'm shot-it hurts. I'll stop.
Then there are physical stops- these require a central nervous system disruption. Not even a heart shot is necessarily an immediate physical stop.
Of course, bigger/faster is better-but it's not near as much better as most think it is.

 

[Old School or Nothing]

With the same weight bullet and same length barrel the 9mm and 38+p are basically the same load. You have better bullet options with the 38 because most 9mm pistols only function with a few bullet styles.

The 10mm was developed to do what a 357mag with 125hp does from a 4" barrel but found to be too much for most shooters and too hard on the pistols. They reduced pressure and length and fell back to the 40s&w which is not as strong as a 357mag but has more than the 38spl or 9mm option.

The reason for all the development to begin with was because they wanted pistols instead of revolvers and the 9mm wasn't enough. They missed the power if the 357mag.

Personally I carry 38spl+p, 357mag, or 45acp but not in the same sized guns. If I don't think thats enough I add a rifle or shotgun and the handgun becomes the backup. 9mm is okay but I don't carry it - my son does though and is pleased with it.

 

[Shawlerbrook]

Most important is being able to put your shots where you want them. If you can hit what you are aiming at consistently, the 357 will be much more effective. If not, move down to 38+P and then just 38 until you can hit your target consistently.

 

[ral357]

Out of a 2" barrel 38 vs 357......the winner is........9mm Before you get the pitchforks and torches look at the numbers and be honest with yourself. Yes the 357 is still more powerful than the 9 out of a snub but at what cost? 125 grain 357 is less than 50 fps faster than 124 grain 9 out of a 2" barrel, 38 is way back in the weeds at 700fps. Thats about 300fpe for the 357, 280 for the 9 and 150 for the 38. What the 357 brings besides 20 more pfe is a bit more recoil and a lot more blast. IMHO I believe that blast has as much to do with flinching as recoil, perhaps more in loadings such as the 357.
38, 38+P, 357 or 9mm, they all will work if you can hit with them. I have a 686 2.5" 357 and a LCR 9mm. I carry the LCR and shoot it a lot more. Which brings up the last advantage of the 9 ..cost. For the fella that doesn't reload the clear winner in that department is the 9mm. Because the 9mm is substantially cheaper a person can practice more, a lot more, and that brings us back to the hitting what you intend to hit where you intend to hit it. If you can't hit with it its just a handheld flash bang.
Now where did I put my asbestos drawers😛

 

[Mr645]

Thanks for all the replies. I think I really need to shoot a couple of boxes of .357 and 38 +P rounds. I already have FMJ versions of each on the way. Also not my first Rhino, I have a 6" version in 9mm and find it extremely accurate. One difference between the sizes is the 6" has adjustable triple fiber optic sights while the 2" model has a fiber optic front and ingeniously cut a "V" into the top of the hammer as the rear sight, but there is no adjustability.
The low bore design certainly reduces recoil and does wonders to eliminate muzzle flip. The trigger is a bit odd with a what I measured on the 6" gun as 9.5lbDA/3lbSA. But a very high quality feel, very smooth, well designed. I find the single action being so light more of an issue than the high effort double action mode. Pulling back the hammer is far more disruptive than the heavy trigger.
I bought the Rhino 200DS mainly because I liked it and since it came with a nice Italian leather holster I can easily carry it. Currently I carry either a Beretta 92X compact which is a big large for a carry, or a Walther P22, which is great to carry but 22LR is a bit light. Of course with the P22 I can put a lot of shots on target very quickly. I think getting hit with 4 or 5 rounds of fast 22 will be effective. This little Rhino will join the list of options I have.
Also, I did have a Glock 40, full size 10mm but my wife did not like shooting it and nothing against Glocks, I am just not a big fan so we sold it. As I think about it, perhaps 38 special will be my typical ammo for weekly range play and a box of 357 defense rounds for carry duties.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

This is one of those situations where hand loading is tailor-made to getting what you want. You can load 110 gr 38 specials that will achieve 1000 fps from a snub nose, or reduce 357 magnums to your desired flash and recoil. Then there is that grey area in between where adventurous souls load 38 magnums and 357 specials. Factory loads usually ignore this grey area and focus mainly on full strength .357 and middle of the road .38 specials.