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.40 S&W / .223 newby advice and clarification needed

1647 Views 11 Replies 8 Participants Last post by oldfartrr, Jan 28, 2013

derfregal

Discussion Starter · Jan 22, 2013

i have been scouring this forum for some direction info and wouldn't ya know it i found some but with more info comes more questions so here goes

do i need to buy a separate factory crimp die (for .40 S&W, roll die for .223) or will the Die sets usually include one?
One of the sticky posts above mentioned a RCBS die that negates the need for a case trimmer..do all RCBS dies serve this function or is there a "specific" die that i look for that has this capability? Im in the beginning phases of planning my purchases and want to get the right dies the first time so i dont have to keep ordering extra things after the fact. Any pointers you have can sure make this easier! I have NEVER been a part of a more helpful forum! Thank you

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steve4102

· #2 · Jan 22, 2013

40 S&W.
There are three basic dies in the set. A Sizing die, an expander die and a bullet seating die. The seating die will also apply a "taper" crimp if you so desire.

You can "taper" crimp with the seating die a couple ways. You can seat and crimp in one step or you can seat in one step, adjust the die and crimp in a separate step.

The Lee four(4) die set comes with the basic three listed above plus a dedicated "taper" crimp die. Lee calls their's a Factory Crimp die as it has a carbide sizing ring at the base to ensure the case was brought back to factory specs.

223 Rem.
223 Rem dies are basically a two(2) die set. A sizing die and a bullet seating die. You can crimp with the seating die with most manufacturers, but not all. As a new reloader I would avoid the Crimp feature on the 223 dies altogether. If you feel (I do) you must crimp your 223 ammo purchase a Lee Factory crimp die. It is not a taper crimp or a roll crimp, it is a collet crimp and it is excellent.

The RCBS die is called an RCBS "X" die. No, not all RCBS dies will reduce the need to trim, only the "X" die. It is also a bottle necked rifle die only and not available in pistols cartridges.

You will not need to trim your 40 S&W brass.

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gdmoody

· #3 · Jan 22, 2013

If you buy the LEE die sets, the deluxe set comes with the factory crimp die. It is called the deluxe set on the pistol dies and pacesetter on the rifle dies. Here are links to both of them at midwayusa, they seem to be out of both of them right now.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/434975/lee-pacesetter-3-die-set-223-remington

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/622255/lee-deluxe-carbide-4-die-set-40-s-and-w-10mm-auto

All right guys, go ahead and start the bashing for me suggesting LEE dies.

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norahc

· #4 · Jan 22, 2013

gdmoody said:
All right guys, go ahead and start the bashing for me suggesting LEE dies.

Why? My Lee dies work great. Plus they have the Lee Classic Loaders that make a great addition to a BOB / camping bag.

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gdmoody

· #5 · Jan 22, 2013

There are some folks around that can't seem to stand the Lee red, 90% of my dies are Lee.

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312shooter

· #6 · Jan 22, 2013

Aside from getting into a brand debate, I'd recommend any of the majors ie; Hornady, RCBS, Redding, Lyman. Lee stirs up alot of adversity due to the materials they use, some like their price and some despise the "cheap" appearance and feel of their products. HOWEVER the Lee crimp die accompanies every caliber I reload for, the low cost of the crimp die by itself is a no brainer. Hey if you decide to start buying Lee 4 die sets and they work great! So it boils down to personal preference. In the long run a four die set is optimum.

The RCBS X die is an OK idea, it will not however, replace the need for a trimmer on a fully equipped reloading bench.

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JohnTheCalifornian

· #7 · Jan 22, 2013

You cant go wrong with the LEE dies. I have used them for close to 11 years and not have ONE single failure to date. Not One!
Please keep reading and asking questions. Everyone here will do what they can to answer your questions.

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myfriendis410

· #8 · Jan 22, 2013

Also, when loading semi auto pistol rounds, using a taper crimp die mostly obviates the necessity for trimming the brass. That alone makes it worthwhile. I load thousands of .45 acp on my Dillon SDB (which comes with a taper crimp die) and I've yet to trim a case.

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derfregal

Discussion Starter · #9 · Jan 23, 2013

thats what i needed to know! you guys have helped me out tremendously with all the advice! thank you!! NOW to scour the intra web and find me some dies to get started!

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oldfartrr

· #10 · Jan 28, 2013

myfriendis410 said:
Also, when loading semi auto pistol rounds, using a taper crimp die mostly obviates the necessity for trimming the brass. That alone makes it worthwhile. I load thousands of .45 acp on my Dillon SDB (which comes with a taper crimp die) and I've yet to trim a case.

they put a max case length spec for a reason !!!
1. when the case gets too long it wont chamber properly
2.you flirt with excess presures when the case gets too long as it can
push the bullet into the rifleing so it is harder to get started
3.unless u readjust your crimp die you will get excessively crimped
bullets that also can cause excess presures and or distorted cases
better start checking case lengths the hotter the loads the more they grow !!!

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steve4102

· #11 · Jan 28, 2013

oldfartrr said:
they put a max case length spec for a reason !!!
1. when the case gets too long it wont chamber properly
2.you flirt with excess presures when the case gets too long as it can
push the bullet into the rifleing so it is harder to get started
3.unless u readjust your crimp die you will get excessively crimped
bullets that also can cause excess presures and or distorted cases
better start checking case lengths the hotter the loads the more they grow !!!

But, but in most straight walled pistol cartridges the more you shoot, size and reload the shorter they get. I have never trimmed a piece of pistol brass, but I only load for semi-autos, revolvers may be a different story.

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oldfartrr

· #12 · Jan 28, 2013 (Edited)

steve4102 said:
But, but in most straight walled pistol cartridges the more you shoot, size and reload the shorter they get. I have never trimmed a piece of pistol brass, but I only load for semi-autos, revolvers may be a different story.

revolver or pistol same story,, have seen revolver shorten the first fireing as it stretches the walls sideways and they seem to shorten a bit,,also revovers not that critical on length as long as you adjust your crimp accordingly as they get longer. low presure loads do not stretch the case as much but can also develope excess presures depending on the powder used..
but semiautos headspace on case mouth and can keep the slide from fully seating the cartridge in chamber
but both can have exessive presure if crimped excessively
you may wish to read your reloader manual,,,the info is there,, and i have seen these issues from more then one reloader. in over 40 years of reloading, am not an expert but have a bit of experience
and my cases dont need trimming as much as most because all my dies have been sized to the chamber of the gun it gets fired in,,, one of the reasons i use only rcbs dies,, send them a fired cartridge from your firearm and they will size the die accordingly,, but it may not fit another firearm depending on chamber size

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