6.5-06 Ackley Improved

Discussion in 'The Ammo & Reloading Forum' started by rifledondw114590, Sep 15, 2008.

  1. rifledondw114590

    rifledondw114590 New Member

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    I've been loading this round for about 3 years, and found significantly improved accuracy & velocities when I switched to Alliant Reloader powders, specifically RL19 and even better, RL22. (I wonder if RL 25 is toooo sloooow for this 30-06-sized cartridge?). But.... I note that Alliant's reloading info lists recipies that give very slow "V" in my rifle, which is: Rem 700 custom, Douglas 28" match stainless hand-lapped bbl, 1 in 9.5" twist, semi-tight custom chamber. My reloads when I was living in California (only mentioned because the average temp when shooting in SoCal was > 80˚ and some velocities were "improved" by cartridge temp....) were pretty hot.

    I ended up with RL22 loads for 140gr bullets in the 59 to 61gr range, whaaay higher than Alliant even lists for the 264 Win Mag. And I saw velocities in the 3250 range! Wow! Some of those loads left primer pockets either "vacant" or leaking smoke when I opened the action. Now that I'm older and wiser (and still alive...) I've dialed 'em back to 57 - 59gr, and see velocities in the 3050 range, still effective on elk, deer, moose, caribou, etc. But again, Alliant would have me using max loads of about 55 - 56, which renders velocities in the 2600 2700 fps range. What gives? Anyone else have any experience with similar cartridges? Note on PO Ackley's comments on the 6.5-06 Improved: bull tweety! Too bad he didn't have today's powders but it's still hard to fathom his logic that the 6.5-06 Imp. showed no improvements over the non-Imp, given that he saw velocity increases with the -06 based imp cartridges that bracket the 6.5 The 25-06 AI, 280 AI, 270 AI all worked better than their parents. Ahh well; science moves on!
     
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  2. Bindernut

    Bindernut Well-Known Member

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    That's another 6.5mm cartridge on my wish list for some day. For some reason I'm just really fond of the .264 bullet diameter.

    Given the bore and case size, I'd think that RL25 would be kinda slow. 6.5-06 should kinda fall between the .25-06 and .270, which I both load for...probably closer to the .270 RL22 and H4831 both work great for me in both of those rounds.

    Personally, I've had a couple Ackley Improved rifles. 22-250AI and 6mmRemAI. I never used the blown-out case specifically for packing in a little extra powder, but rather used the advantages of the steep shoulder and straight walls as an aid to increased case life (less brass stretching so I've gotten many more reloads out of the brass than the standard cartridge would've gave me).
    The nice thing about the Ackleys was that even though the dies cost an arm and a leg, I didn't need to custom form the brass except for a light fire-forming load.
     

  3. John Hunter

    John Hunter New Member

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    I see some of this old information about the 6.5-06. However, any one out there have any new data/info they might like to share? I'm interested in building a rifle in the 6.5-06 caliber. Everybody and everything these days is all about the 6.5 so maybe now might be a great time to investigate this caliber again. Any comments?
     
  4. Twicepop

    Twicepop Well-Known Member

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    Welcome to the FORUM. All the Ackley improved cartridges perform better than their parent cartridge. The two that showed the highest level of improvement were the 25-35 Ackley, and the 250 Savage Ackley. The biggest improvement in any Ackley Improved cartridge is case life.
     
  5. John Hunter

    John Hunter New Member

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    Thanks for your reply and I agree. I own several Ackley improved rifles and Thompson Center rifle and pistol barrels. I enjoy shooting both the TC's and my rifles. I've just been thinking of a possible new project. And thought maybe other folks out there like yourself might provide insight or suggestions.
     
  6. Don Fischer

    Don Fischer Well-Known Member

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    I'll never have an Ackley Improved cartridge. If I need a bit more than my 6.5-06 give's me, I need a 280 Rem. Don't really care a lot about case life. I get five or six loading's from a case I'm happy with it. But the AI flood is everywhere it seem's. Every body, it seem's, buy's either one of the newer magnum's or a standard cartridge with intention's of making an AI out of it. You have a pretty hard time making a 6.5x06 do the same thing a 280 will! I've got a Shilen barrel 1-9 and converting an old 25-06 to it was expensive enough I could have bought a new rifle. But I was driven by ego, had to have that 6.5-06! Best powder for me has been IMR 4831, stay under a half inch if I'm shooting well
     
  7. MMiller1980

    MMiller1980 New Member

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    How many grains of 4831 do you use if you don't mind my asking. I have a 6.5-06AI and have been looking to try some 4831. It would be a good starting load.
     
  8. Don Fischer

    Don Fischer Well-Known Member

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    49.0 grs H4831 SC. 140gr SMK. That's .5 under max.
     
  9. jwdurf

    jwdurf Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    My Sierra 5th doesn't list data for the 6.5-06 Ackley Improved. Don, is your data for the AI or the straight 6.5-06?
     
  10. Don Fischer

    Don Fischer Well-Known Member

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    Regular 6.5x06. You should be able to use data from it to blow out your cases. I haven't seen data for the Ackley version anywhere. I don't think it's in Ackley's manuals.
     
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  11. MMiller1980

    MMiller1980 New Member

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    Thank you. That will be a good starting load. Just got this gun a while ago and trying to work up some loads. I used 12 grains of bullseye pistol powder and filled the cases up to the neck with cream of wheat, then stuffed a .22 cal cleaning patch in the neck. When you shoot them it blows out the case perfect. A guy told me that and I didn't believe him, but it works good.
     
  12. jwdurf

    jwdurf Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    It seems you two are talking about two different purposes for using this data. If I understand correctly, Don loads for a regular 6.5-06, not an Ackley and he is suggesting using his data to blow out cases to Ackley dimensions. Then I understand that MMiller has already blown out the cases with another method and wants to use Don's suggested data as a starting load in an Ackley chamber for load development. If I have stated this incorrectly please correct me, I just want everyone to understand the communication. These are two different circumstances with two different pressure profiles.

    I know that this is what wildcatting is all about but I'll give my standard caution: Be VERY careful when dealing with any data that doesn't come from legitimate manuals and be extra careful when extrapolating data from one caliber or source to another.
     
  13. Don Fischer

    Don Fischer Well-Known Member

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    I'm not suggesting any load. I was asked for my load in my 6.5x06. That is what was sent with a warning that the load is .5 grs under max for a standard 6.5x06. I don't use Ackley's but have read of them for a long time. There are several ways of blowing out a case to an Ackley. You can do what mr Millar did, you can buy factory ammo if there is any, if the chamber might be a bit long, you can used a reduced load and seat the bullet into the lands to help hold the case where it belong's. Then if your sizing down case's from something else, stop short of the neck and leave a donut that stops the case from going all the way in. Pretty much instead of headspacing on the shoulder, it does on the donut at the junction of the neck and throat.

    I understand his delima with finding loads, I had the same problem and did a lot of reading trying to find data. Today both Hornady and Nosler have data for the 6.5x06 and that data can be used to get a starting load for the Ackley version.
     
  14. jwdurf

    jwdurf Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Don it's clear to me that your messages are relating to blowing out the cases, I said so in my last message. It's clear that your data is for the 6.5-06. You don't state where the data originated.

    It's also clear that MMiller was asking for a starting load for his AI. I wasn't sure MMiller understood that your message was about blowing out the cases based on his response in message #11. He said: "Thank you. That will be a good starting load." That's the comment that makes me think that he didn't understand you were referring to blowing out the cases.

    I am not criticizing anyone, it just appears to me that there is possibly some confusion as to what the load data is intended for. My only intention is to point out that possible miscommunication.
     
  15. Don Fischer

    Don Fischer Well-Known Member

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    How many grains of 4831 do you use if you don't mind my asking. I have a 6.5-06 AI and have been looking to try some 4831. It would be a good starting load.

    I don't see where he asked anything about blowing out case's. It would be a good starting load is right. 1/2gr under max in the standard cartridge is a good starting point. I think it was him in a later post that he said something like he use's, I think it was, 12 grs of red dot, with corn meal or some other filler over it and a 22 cleaning patch on top of that to blow out case's. Think I'd add something here. Using 180 gr cast bullet's in my 30-06 I have a very nice load. 13 grs red dot covered with a quarter sheet of toilet paper. The toilet paper'e only use is to keep the powder up against the flash hole. I do that with every cast bullet I load with any powder. Then I haven't filled a case to even 50% capacity either. He get's more weight to push out with the filler he's using but I'm getting more weight from a bullet and not a cleaning patch. I can understand him not wanting to use a bullet to form the case's and the only reason I would is that I have cast bullet's. I wouldn't go out and buy the tools needed to make cast bullet's just to re-size cases. For him I believe it's better to do what he's doing. As I already said there are several different way's to blow out a case to an Ackley!
     
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