.600 FE

Discussion in 'Large-Bore/Small-Bore Rifle/Shotgun' started by That_Guy!, Jun 26, 2020.

  1. That_Guy!

    That_Guy! Well-Known Member

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    Hello guys. Time to start a new project. Still working with 12 Gauge from Hell extensively, but I felt I needed to do this while I can. .600 FE (.600 Ferran) is a wildcat concept I have created. Based off of 20 gauge shot shell brass, this cartridge is very much like a rifle cartridge, however like the 12gaFH it's still classified as a shotgun. Now, 20 gauge from hell is a real thing, but my cartridge is completely different. Where 20/12 gauge from hell is designed to go as fast as possible, my case is much much shorter at 2" and is designed for subsonic velocities so a suppressor can be used. With a 1000 grain hollow point, moving just below the supersonic zone, it can produce around 3000 ft-lbs of muzzle energy, despite it's slow speed.

    The advantages of my cartridge, and the platform I'm using are actually pretty cool. This requires no special chamber cut, no special magazine, or any other kind of trickery. Meaning, this gun will shoot both my cartridge, and normal 20 gauge slugs. This makes this an extremely versatile platform.

    This cartridge has North American game in mind, and is even more specifically aimed at shotgun only areas. Though, this should be good from deer, elk, moose, and bear, pretty much anything we got here and maybe a few African species. The suppressor, while not necessary adds to this cartridge, but like I said it's totally optional.

    Right now, to get a savage set up for this and to gather the materials (bullets, brass ect.) a person is looking at around $2100 in total for a very rough estimate. It could be made much cheaper still if you used a 20 gauge Ultra Slug Hunter from H&R, as it requires virtually no modifications except for a new pad and a threaded barrel if you choose to suppress. The savage is going to need a new stock, aftermarket bull barrel, muzzle threaded, and that's it.

    Anyways, I'm very early into the development and I've got a lot to go until it's ready for a test firing. I've got the brass and barrel on order now. So, if this is something that interests you, you can follow along here as this is where I'll post updates.

    Here is a quick video that kinda explains some stuff and shows it will fit in the savage. The slug will probably look a bit different, but the loaded length will be identical. Let me know what y'all think!

     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2020
  2. sharps4590

    sharps4590 Well-Known Member

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    Not too dissimilar a concept from the H&H Paradox or Westley Richards Explora except for the full length rifled barrel? But more powerful and a LOT less expensive!!!
     
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  3. That_Guy!

    That_Guy! Well-Known Member

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    Yes, fully rifled! JD Jones thinks this is going to be a rather simple thing to accomplish but says it might be challenging to keep it quiet due to bore size, which I have to agree with. Should be interesting, hopefully it stays halfway quiet or at least hearing safe

    Screenshot_20200626-074603_Facebook.jpg
     
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  4. grcsat

    grcsat Well-Known Member

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    Your cartridge and rifle reminds me of the old time African dangerous/big game cartridge.
    Many of these cartridges had a problem with bullet expansion at lower velocities.
    Have you compared hard cast lead verses copper for a projectile.
    If I recall my very limited math/velocity ect , you may have a "very large " silencer at the end of your barrel. I recall seeing a US military 50 cal low velocity experimental rifle that had a silencer that was the size of a car muffler.

    Keep up the good work.
     
  5. That_Guy!

    That_Guy! Well-Known Member

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    Thank you. Expansion was a problem with the old cartridges, but it shouldn't be a problem with this. The guy who made my custom solids will also make this and he has all the software that gives an idea on how it will do ect. If expansion isn't possible, fragmentation should certainly be a viable option as well. The copper is longer than lead of the same weight. This is crucial for the design to get a good load density. If my calculations are correct, the bullet in copper will be around 1.75" long, possibly longer.
     
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  6. That_Guy!

    That_Guy! Well-Known Member

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    Oh, and for those that don't know who JD Jones is, he is a big big deal in the big bore community. This guy has forgotten more about cartridge design then most will ever know. He's currently the Guinness World Record holder for the largest centerfire cartridge in the world, the 950 jdj
     
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  7. That_Guy!

    That_Guy! Well-Known Member

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    *dummy cartridge made on my 3d Printer

    Ok I'm gonna break out the calculator and give a comparison of popular subsonic cartridges vs the cartridge I have invented. Some folks might not understand why this cartridge is "special". To keep it apples to apples we will make calculations all at the same velocity of 1050 fps.

    .300 aac blackout 194gr = 475 FT-LBs

    .450 Bushmaster 395gr = 967 FT-LBs

    .45-70 500gr = 1224 FT-LBs

    .50 Beowulf 600gr = 1469 FT-LBs

    600 Ferran 1000gr = 2448 FT-LBs

    As you can see, my cartridge concept is an absolute hammer at such a low velocity. With the added benefit of being able to still fire 20 gauge shot shells, this makes for an incredibly versatile package for hunting just about anything we have on this continent.

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    Last edited: Jun 27, 2020
  8. That_Guy!

    That_Guy! Well-Known Member

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    Just got an email from the gentleman who is making the bullets. We are trying to figure out a solution to get reliable expansion at subsonic velocities as low as 800 fps. Right now the plan is to make the hollow point massive, score the inside in several places, and add a ballistic tip to act as a piston to aid in expansion and increase the BC of the projectile.
     
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  9. That_Guy!

    That_Guy! Well-Known Member

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    drop.jpg

    Extremely rough calculations for exterior ballistics. I don't have a BC or a bullet length, so I took my best guess. This data will almost certainly change. Drop isn't as horrible as I expected. Will be curious to see this with accurate bullet data input.
     
  10. That_Guy!

    That_Guy! Well-Known Member

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    PicsArt_07-13-08.16.07.jpg

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    Got the Pattern stock in from Boyds. Making modifications to it before I send it off for duplication. I like the general shape of the stock, but the botom of it has flats and sharp corners which can snag or chip easily. Getting rid of that BS for a more elegant and smooth look. Have to bed the bottom metal as it's an extremely loose fit. Doing this stuff on the pattern stock pays off big when it comes back from duplication. Will have a grip cap fit, and some ebony bits when it comes back. Should look real pretty
     
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  11. That_Guy!

    That_Guy! Well-Known Member

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    20200716_193000.jpg

    Tapered down the forend. Need to taper the sides a little and then round the flats and tips. Hope to get that done tomorrow. Decided to use African Blackwood instead of ebony for the tip and grip cap. A lot easier to find dried and just as pretty.
     
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  12. That_Guy!

    That_Guy! Well-Known Member

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    The results of tapering the forend. Working the grip area now. 20200717_162614.jpg 20200717_225327.jpg
     
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  13. That_Guy!

    That_Guy! Well-Known Member

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    Brass has arrived. Looking for a place to manufacture dies. 20200724_135528.jpg
     
  14. That_Guy!

    That_Guy! Well-Known Member

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    So, the brass I just recieved will not work. It's far too thick at .035". This will make FL sizing very difficult without tearing up the rim and crimping impossible. I contacted a different company who can make me custom cases with my own head stamp. Their brass seams much stronger and is rated for 65k PSI. The RMC brass cannot withstand that. I will draw up the modified brass in CAD and send it to them to get a quote. Cartridge will likely have to have a taper or a very minuscule shoulder. If I just thinned the brass, the ID would be a lot bigger than .615, sona taper or shoulder will be required. This 100% means it will not ever be classified as a shotgun, but as a rifle meaning it HAS to get a sporting use exemption for me to continue.
     
  15. That_Guy!

    That_Guy! Well-Known Member

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    Here is the old brass cut in half so you can see the problem. As you can see, it's far too thick.

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    Here is the drawings I have sent to RCC. It will have my own headstamp. Swapped the 209 to a large rifle primer as well. Will be ordering them when I get back from my honeymoon. 600 FE 1.jpg
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