8x56 Mannlicher to 8x57 Mauser???

Discussion in 'Curio & Relics Forum' started by cointoss2, Mar 4, 2003.

  1. cointoss2

    cointoss2 Guest

    WyomingSwede
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    (3/10/01 2:51:46 pm)
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    considering purchase of 8x56 mannlicher to play with...can it be rechambered to 8x57 mauser??? How strong is that action? What about rebarreling to 6.5-06? Any opinions appreciated. regards swede

    (Bob ...dont hit me...I plan on buying two and keeping one original...)
    Wyoming Swede

    Bob In St Louis
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    (3/10/01 3:32:45 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: 8x56 Mannlicher to 8x57 Mauser???
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    Jeez - good question. This might be one for Tye or AntiqueDr. I am thinking though, that the Mannlicher cartridge is slightly wider at the base than the Mauser cartridge, and it might not be feasible to ream the chamber.
    Support the Dead Party, vote Harry S. Truman for Missouri Senate in 2002!

    AntiqueDr
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    (3/10/01 5:26:49 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del 8x56R (for "Rimmed")
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    I am assuming you are considering a M1895 converted rifle to either M30 Austrian or M31 Hungarian, and not a Model 1908 which I would think is far too valuable to mess with.

    To my knowledge the 8x56 Mannlicher is a rimmed round. Converting to a rimless round like the 8x57 or anything based on the .30-06 case would be impractical. Anyway, I would be real skeptical of the action's capability to handle 40,000 cup on a regular basis.



    WyomingSwede
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    (3/10/01 5:41:01 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: 8x56R (for "Rimmed")
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    Thanks doc...right on the money as far as the 1985 carbine...I would love a mannlicher-schoenauer but the tag is a little high for my present situations.
    Is the 8x56R ammo tough to find? Realize out here in the ultimate sticks....its a load your own situation most of the time. Any other cartridge that the 95 might be rechamber to with little difficulty? Has anyone shot a few of these...are they worth the effort?? Thanks for the assist. regards swede
    Wyoming Swede

    AntiqueDr
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    (3/10/01 6:59:32 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: 8x56R (for "Rimmed")
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    Swede,

    It turns out that the Yugoslavians did in fact convert a bunch of 95's to 7.92mm. They installed new barrels, reworked the magazine to eliminate the Mannlicher clip, milled a stripper clip guide and reworked the bolt head. That is what you would have to do to make the conversion to rimless. Can you imagine what that would cost today? I mention that only since someone will probably bring up that 95's have been converted to 8x57 before.

    Buffalo Arms and Bertram Brass both have new custom brass for reloading.

    www.surplusfirearms.com is advertising surplus ammunition.

    Military ammunition was a 206gr .329 bullet at 2300 fps. I imagine you could rebarrel to .30-40 or .303 Brit if you just had to. I think you would be happier just loading the 8x56R.




    Edited by: Tac401 at: 3/10/01 7:06:11 pm

    Tac401
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    (3/10/01 7:07:52 pm)
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    Made your link active for you Doc.

    Tac
    The Firearms Forum Vietnam Memories Bulletin Board sjdsports@hotmail.com

    WyomingSwede
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    (3/10/01 9:18:28 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: 8x56R (for "Rimmed")
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    I think your right doc...just pick up another set of dies and some brass. That way I'll have the fun of working up new loads. Thanks to all for the info. Regards swede
    Wyoming Swede

    polishshooter
    Registered User
    Posts: 12
    (3/24/01 6:52:13 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: 8x56 Mannlicher to 8x57 Mauser???
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    Hey Wyoming!!!

    My first military I ever owned was a "Sporterized" M95 I bought with 200 rounds when I was 18 for $25. When I shot them all up they were ABSOLUTELY unavailable at less than $1/rd, and reloading back then was impossible, so I sold it.

    Now I have another cherry M95 I paid too much for before I got my CRFFL (believe it or not, I could have had a Swede M96 for the same price and bought the M95!!!!)

    There is nice Nazi headstamped 8x56RH ammo available cheaply now, I buy it still for $3/10 but it's getting harder to find at that price. It's corrosive.

    I asked on GB for all kinds of advice on rebarrelling, etc, and there are lots of guys with the same questions. The answer is yes, but the cost will far outweigh the benefit!!!!

    Ammo CAN be reloaded, but the dies are custom about ($80.)
    Brass is available at about $40/20 Bertram, or you can easily form 7.62X54R Russian into them with a $12 forming die.

    Your problem is bullets. The 56RH is actually .329 inch. and the only other round to takes that size is the .318 Westley Richards. In other words, none. Actually Woodleigh makes them for about $1/bullet.

    Unless you cast with a custom mold, you will spend about 2-3 times the worth of the gun just to set up to reload 100 rounds.

    BUT that darn carbine is SO light,handy and quick...It's still my favorite BB "plinker" and would make a dandy "brush gun" for deer...

    If I could get someone just to make a (reasonably priced)replacement barrel in 7.62X54R I would be in Hog heaven. It should be the easiest conversion, you wouldn't have to mess with the bolt.

    (The Russian Round will feed through the action/clips with no problems, I tried it. NO I AM NOT STUPID ENOUGH to have fired it when I did, don't even think about it anybody.)

    Let's start a groundswell for this weapon and maybe WW will begin making components...well it's a thought anyway.

    Darn thing even outkicks my '97 riot with slugs even, definitely my "recoil king."

    polishshooter
    Registered User
    Posts: 13
    (3/24/01 6:59:13 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: 8x56 Mannlicher to 8x57 Mauser???
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    And oh, yeah. The Nazis converted alot of allies weapons to 8X57. Like the Carcano, most either didn't work or were even dangerous to shoot. I don't know it the M95 carbines were dangerous, I've had people tell me they are, but they couldn't have been too reliable. That Mannlicher feed system would have to be totally redesigned to work with Rimless, I'd say.

    I've heard they DIDN'T work very well, which is why they began to load the 8X56 later. The M95 carbine was not only used by the Austrian and Hungarian troops, but German rear echelon police units (Einzentruppen?) used them too..

    In typical German fashion, the available ammo AND clips they come with are headstamped with tiny little swastikas and eagles.

    CaliCollector
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    (9/5/02 8:36:54 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: 8x56 Mannlicher to 8x57 Mauser???
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    Swede-
    if you are lookinf for 8x56r ammo, i would keep my eye on the sportsmans guide. they usually have it from time to time, i cant remember the cost, but it was dated 1938 pretty stout recoil from a steyr m-95, it was too heavy for my skinny shoulders. the price, i cant remember for certain but i want to say it was like $5.00 for 20 rounds.. it wasnt that much... my memory could be failing me on the price though.. but anyway, watch sportsmansguide or go to sportsmansguide.com... i think its usually under ammo.. also.. being it was made in 1938 it may be corrosive, i can never remember when they stopped using that crap, so i automatically assume anything older then 1960's manufacture is corrosive and treat it as such, i figure my collection is worth more than the extra cleaning effort. hope this helps. Ray in California

    WyomingSwede
    *TFF Senior Staff*
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    (9/6/02 11:14:39 pm)
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    Thanks for assist CC. I get about 4 catalogs a month from ole Gary. I even joined the club cause I got a big ammo purchase that made it worthwhile. And a belated welcome aboard too.

    swede
    Wyoming Swede

    CaliCollector
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    (9/6/02 11:27:14 pm)
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    ezSupporter
    Re: 8x56 Mannlicher to 8x57 Mauser???
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    thanks for the welcome Swede.

    Ammo Guy Paul
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    (9/8/02 3:34:46 am)
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    I constantly here about how unsafe The Steyer rifle is. Could it be the rotating bolt design? A rotating bolt sounds pretty iffy until you think about the.... Swiss straight-pull rifles, M-1, M-1 carbine, M-14/M1a, M-16, Stg-44, ALL AKs and their clones, Swede Lungman to name a few. I've never seen ANYBODY hesitate to put their face next to one of these weapons and pull the trigger. I think two things are at work here. 1) To paraphrase, "If something is repeated long enough and often enough it becomes the truth. 2) No one really knows the quality of the receiver's steel. As with many things there is often a grain of truth at the core. I read in American Rifleman where a gentleman converted one of these to 7.62x54R. The conversion was done something like 20 years ago and has stood the test of time. He said it fed, functioned, and shot fine. I've often seen the 7.62x54R round compared as an equal to the 7.62x63 i.e. .30-06. My .02.



    The Ammo Guy



    Aim small, miss small!


    WyomingSwede
    *TFF Senior Staff*
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    (9/8/02 4:09:10 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: 8x56 Mannlicher to 8x57 Mauser???
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    You are right on that one Paul. I have seen british enfields converted to .308's and even a few swede mausers to 22-250 (by Kimber no less). Stuff that isnt supposed to work...but due to high quality steel in the receiver...it is timex...takes the licking and keeps on ticking. a belated welcome aboard also...swede
    Wyoming Swede

    polishshooter
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3692
    (9/14/02 9:30:38 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: 8x56 Mannlicher to 8x57 Mauser???
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    I saw my first Lee 8x56R dies available at a show a few weeks ago...standard ones at $21. So the first step to economically reloading this cartridge is here. Actually the second...the case forming die from x54 is only like $12 , and Winchester now is selling good reloadable cartridges and loaded rounds in x54 (actually just WW restamped Sellior and Bellot manufactured, but who cares...)

    But we still need the bullets....

    Yeah, the chamber pressures for x54 are really similar, as is .30-40 Krag....BUT...

    I have asked all major barrel makers for an estimate, and all are the same...rebarreling, with all the work will take 3 bills...too steep for me.

    All we really need are the bullets......cheap...

    But give it time, Lee would NOT have come out with the "cheap" dies if they didn't know something or have a good idea...

    Anybody that first sees .329 FMJ or JSP bullets advertised by Speer or Hornady or the like give us a yell...THAT will be a GREAT day.




    And as to strength? The M95 is the STRONGEST straight pull ever designed. PERIOD.

    Second, like you said, it is AS strong, mechanically, maybe not steel wise, than ANY semi-auto design...maybe stronger.

    People see something new or different, and "intuitively" see things that they THINK could go wrong, with NO basis in fact, just because it LOOKS like it could happen, and the second time it gets repeated, it's "Fact."



    So many "wive's tales" exist out there, about different guns "blowing up" "letting go..."...kinda like the guy at the same show who winced when I told him about my '97 and how I use it for deer...and told me "You better watch out, I've HEARD that bolt can let go and come flying back in your face, especially with slugs!!!"

    Now I'm sorry, but the bolt on the '97 shotgun is similar to a lot of open reciever lever action Winchester rifles. And even a slug generates much lower pressure than ANY rifle cartridge.
    And ANY reported "bolts letting go and hitting the shooter in the face" would be reported pretty extensively, especially with as many '97s being used again in Cowboy shooting...

    But am I going to be thinking something about it when I touch off my 20 or 30 slugs at the range through it before this season, like I have for the past 10 years?

    Like I need ANOTHER reason to jerk the trigger...



    "Don't hear him call you an ---hole, hear WHY he's calling you an ---hole." -------- From "A Season on the Brink"

    jonkx
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    Posts: 32
    (9/30/02 9:21:03 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: 8x56 Mannlicher to 8x57 Mauser???
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    You can use .323 bullets but won't hit much. Swaging .338's down or using a mould is your best bet. Buffalo arms has the bullets but they are expensive.

    8mmSteyr
    Member
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    (11/9/02 9:00:16 am)
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    I recently bought a set of Lee dies off of Gunbroker, and ordered the .329 bullet sizer directly from Lee. Next I will get some reloadable brass and .338 bullets and see if I can put it all together.
    One thing that concerns me is the possibility of leading. Does anyone know if this will be a problem?
    And just to make sure I have ammo to burn until I get this reloading thing figured out, I'm picking up a full case of 8x56r later this morning.

    "Leave the gun,...take the cannoli."

    neutercane
    Member
    Posts: 1
    (1/1/03 5:41:39 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del .329" bullets
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    Hi All!! Is Schroeder Bullets still in business? I ordered some .309" bullets from him for my CZ-52, and in addition to those, he sold 150, 175, 200, and 220 grain bullets in .329" diameter. My price sheet is several years old, but they were $26.00 per hundred and his reformed brass was $22.00 for 20 cases. Also, could the M95 be rebored or rebarelled to .348 Winchester? The recoil might be a tad heavier though!

    polishshooter
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3755
    (1/11/03 7:17:54 pm)
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    Let me know how your reloading goes, I'm down to 60 rounds of the Nazi stuff, and haven't fired the Steyr in a while, but I've been fondling it lately so it may be time to let 'er rip soon. Lately at shows the ammo is around $8/10, getting close to the $1/rd it was years ago.

    The only other problem I have is the darn sights set lowest at 300m , holding a foot below the grass line to hit a target at 100 is no fun, especially when the sights on M44s are dead on at 100, which besides the ammo is why I seem to grab a Mosin when I plink instead of the Steyr. WHY would you make settings of 300-2400 m on a CARBINE?? Holding it and trying to get a sight picture with the sight set at 2400 feels like an M79.

    I ALMOST plunked down a C and a quarter for a really nice Budapest at a show this summer though, it would be nice to have a set of 95s...

    "Don't hear him call you an ---hole, hear WHY he's calling you an ---hole." -------- From "A Season on the Brink"
     
  2. superray

    superray New Member

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    mannlicher 95

    I am new to this forum and enjoyed reading about the same thing I was fooling with about 20 years ago. The 8x56 that I had was a rifle. It was a Steyr and in mint condition. I tried the 7.62x54 and the results were not too good. Seems the head on the 8x56 is about .500-.502 and when I fire-formed the cases I got a heck of a BULGE! The heads on the Russian brass are only.487-.488 just below the rim and seems to really balloon at that point. The only thing I could find at the time that I felt might work was 45-70. I bought a sizing die from RCBS for $51.00(big money back in 85' or 86') but had to have it! Was able to reduce the stuff thru several dies that I had on hand and finally got about 18 or 20 pretty good cases. So I opened the bolt, slid one in the chamber and closed the bolt only to find that it would not lock up because the rims were too thick! I quickly made a holder for the cases and reduced the thickness of the rims and got them to chamber. The bullet I used for this adventure was the 330235 from NEI in Texas. I made about a hundred of these only to find that when I pushed one in the barrel and tried to Take a measurement for overall length the result was that the overall length left about .1 of the bullet in the neck and the rest of it sticking out of the case! There is a considerable amount of freebore in this chamber! This was probably done to reduce the pressure of this more powerful round. I then set out to widen the front band in one of the cavities. I don't recall fully, but I think I went out to .338 so that the slug would stop somewhere in a reasonable length. To make a long story hopefully shorter the results were poor to say the least. The best accuracy I ever got was about 31/2 at 100 yds. After about 3 reloads the necks began splitting. I really like the M95 Mannlicher, but only if I can find one in the original 8x50 that used a .323 bullet would I ever consider buying another one. Have a nice day,.....Ray
     

  3. cointoss2

    cointoss2 Guest

    Welcome superray, thanks for joining jump right in and post. :)
     
  4. superray

    superray New Member

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    8x56 Mannlicher

    Thanks so much. Hope I didn't get tioo long winded on the 8x56. After some thought this may be a good candidate for paper-patch bullets. If I owned one of these again I think I would definately try this. Have a good one,.....Ray
     
  5. WyomingSwede

    WyomingSwede Guest

    Thanks for the post ray & welcome to the board. Thats about as far as I ever got on the project and it got put back due to some type of issue, I dont remember.
    I see you are from Dayton. I was born about 10 miles north of there in Troy. Still related to probably half of Miami county. Headed west when young and never looked back.
    I do some mild wildcatting now and then. Favor a .338-06 now and the .264 win mag is my favorite cartridge (other than the 6.5 swede, hence my moniker). The short mag craze probably killed off the .338-06 again, too bad, a truly versatile cartridge.
    Welcome again sir....

    swede
     
  6. montanabob

    montanabob New Member

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    Pay attention here guys. There was a rifle made, by Mannlicher-Schoenauer, chambered in their cartridge 8x56 MS. This was NOT a rimmed round, came in their turnbolt rifle M1908 and was pretty slick. Kind of similar to the 8x57 Mauser (7.92x57 JS). They also made, for the military, a rifle based on a straight pull action, chambered in 8x56R Hungarian (Austrian). This was a rimmed round, very similar but longer than the 7.62x54R russian round.

    That being said, I don't know why the gentleman above would want to rechamber the rifle if it is a 1908. I would leave it alone, although if he wanted to I think it would be quite safe. Both the Mauser and MS rounds operate at similar pressures. If it is the M94/30 rifle in the rimmed round, I would also leave it alone. It is fun to shoot "as is", ammo is available--both military surplus and commercial. Yes, some of these were rechambered to a variety of calibers by a number of countries after WWI and before WWII. The Germans, Italians, Serbs and others. Probably safe, because remember we're talking about the Austrians here. Made decent steel and all that.
     
  7. durk

    durk Active Member

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    Welcome, Montanabob. Keep in mind this thread was started back in the year 2003.
     
  8. roadpirate

    roadpirate New Member

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    I just signed up, to share some insight on rebarreling the M95. I started looking into this a while back, but got tied up
    in other projects. thought I'd pass what I found onto someone eles and see if they could take it farther...
    In 1924, some of these rifles were coverted to 7.92x57 mauser, also known as 8x57 mauser. They were designated the M95/24 in Yugosalvia & Bulgaria. They were then loaded using mauser stripper clips. If any of these barrels can be found, it might be the answer we are all looking for.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2008
  9. trotterlg

    trotterlg New Member

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    I also signed up to give you some of my experience with these. First, sorry if I offend anyone by cutting one of these up, but I got it for cheap. I modified the bolt head by making a top hat type of fireing pin bushing for it, then cut the face to fit a 30-06 case. The extractor just needed a little silvered on the claw to extract the straight case. I cut some 55 degree threads on a 204 Ruger takeoff barrel and modified a 270 reamer to cut a 20-06 chamber. The 30-06 or actucally 25-06 brass necked down to 20 feeds from the clips with no problem at all. It is a controlled round feed, the rounds just snap up into the bolt head like they should. I also modified the bottom of the magazine to fold down for access because with a scope on the rifle you cannot load the clips from the top. So far so good, 60gr of H-1000 and a 34gr bullet gets 4,096fps, that is a full case. It extracts easily and can even rechamber fired brass. I hope you are right about the strength of the action. First picture is the modified bolt head and the second is the rifle as it looks now. Larry

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    With enough money, time, and dedication, just about anything is possible. Whether it is feasible or makes sense is another matter.

    Jim
     
  11. wpage

    wpage Active Member

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    Good point. However the Mannlicher is a good place to start.
     
  12. trotterlg

    trotterlg New Member

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    If you have a small cheapo lathe, this is about a 4 hour job. Larry
     
  13. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    Hi, Larry,

    And does that include modifying the magazine or are there 8x57 Mannlicher clips floating around? Also, four hours lathe time is just fun for a hobbyist. If the work is being done by a professional, you have to count in his figuring out first what has to be done, and the whole job is going to add up to well over $300 or more.

    "Different strokes" and all that, but the whole thing seems to me a waste of time just to have a straight-pull action in a usable caliber.

    Jim
     
  14. trotterlg

    trotterlg New Member

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  15. locknloadnow

    locknloadnow New Member

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    this is a very old thread but it's worth reviving. I once had a Steyr-made M95/30 chambered in 8x56R but it had a swelled chamber. I fired it a few times but it would not eject and had to pound the brass out with a piece of 1/4" steel brake line. I sent it to a gunsmith but the only thing he could advise was either rechambering it to 348 Winchester, which would "cover" all the existing chamber defects once the barrel threads were cut off, set back, and rethreaded. Effectively that would make it a SINGLE SHOT as the .348 case was so much larger, it no longer would feed in the factory en bloc clips. Having already paid $175 for the gun, and another $60 for a box of Hornady ammo and dies, I decided to just sell the gun. A guy on the net bought the whole deal from me for $250 plus s/h so I barely managed to break even after the shipping and paypal fees- but was happy I did break even. I advised him about the swelled chamber but he was changing the barrel anyway.

    Since then I look at the M95's but always passed on them, one thing about them is, they are HEAVY in full rifle milsurp condition.

    Until recently, I ran across a sporterized M95 in very good condition for a very good price. As I was paying for it, the seller informed me, it was one of the somewhat rare scarce ones that were rechambered for 8x57. It has an en bloc clip welded into it, and a stepped 8x57 K98 barrel. So the barrel was changed.

    I have the rifle here so if anyone still needs to know how this was done, post here and I'll put up pictures of the chamber, etc.

    Looks like all you do is screw on a K98 barrel and weld in an en block clip, but no doubt there's a few more mods as well for the locking lugs, and bolt head and bolt face.

    I was quite pleased to find out it was now 8x57 because that ammo is still available on the cheap in berdan primed milsurp form.

    after doing the research, these 8x57 M95's are called an M95/24 If you can find one, they are the ones to get. The rimless round is better than the 8x50R or 8x56R because it's more modern, and easier to find and reload for. I really liked the idea of the 8x56R in the first gun but could not get it to work. It was like hens teeth trying to find ammo for that locally.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2012