[SSGWerwolf]

I picked up a batch of odds and ends of ammo lately and now I am trying to ID a few rounds I am not familiar with.

these look and measure out to be 8x56 RIMLESS, with the .470" rim Diameter.

these are stamped S L 5 4 around the base of the rim.

any help verifying these and maybe someone who could use them?? I do not have a gun to fit them.

Thanks!!

I have a couple more odd rounds I may post and seek help to verify them.

 

[SSGWerwolf]

not all of them have the same stamps on the base. that was just the first one I grabbed out of the bag.

 

[sharps4590]

Case dimensions would be a great help.

That appears to be a military headstamp and I never knew the 8 X 56 M/S cartridge to be a military round.

 

[SSGWerwolf]

that is why I am kinda confused too. case is 55.9 mm (2.20") long with 11.9mm (.470") rim diameter. OD of the case right below the bullet is 8.8mm (0.34"), the bullet right above the case is 8.1mm (0.32"), OAL is 74.5mm (2.93")
I do not have an empty case to measure ID.

also My calipers are not calibrated so there could be a slight variance.

what other round would have very close dimensions with the military head stamp ??

Thanks for the input !

 

[sharps4590]

What is the shoulder diameter and from the base to the shoulder datum line?

Didja compare it to the 8 X 57 Mauser? They are very close and some 1908, 8 X 56 Mannlicher/Schoenauer rifles will chamber 8 X 57's. Mine doesn't but I know of some that do. That's the closest one I can think of.

7.92×57mm Mauser - Wikipedia

8 x 56 MANNLICHER-SCHOENAUER | Cartridgecollector.net
8x56 Mannlicher-Schoenauer (chuckhawks.com)

 

[SSGWerwolf]

The measurements are not adding up for the 7.92x57.
I measure the case at 55.9mm so it may be 56 but I think it is too far away to be 57.
The bullet is measuring at 8.1 mm

you got a picture of where the measurements you are talking about?
I am not sure what "shoulder Datum line " is located

 

[SSGWerwolf]

just grab another round out of the bag and it is measuring 56.5mm bullet still at 8.1mm OAL 75.4mm
iam really confused! LOL

 

[SSGWerwolf]

many of the measurements are close to the 8x57 except for the OAL.
it could be a 8x57

I am not sure.

 

[sharps4590]

No sir, I don't have a picture but I believe I can explain it. The datum line is where the shoulder starts its angle from the case body toward the neck. That is also where you measure the shoulder diameter.

Bear in mind the measurements from the cases are not always precise and, you mentioned your calipers not being exact either. That and many countries used and loaded the 8 X 57 so there's bound to be minor variations, it's unavoidable.

 

[SSGWerwolf]

yeah the more different ones I measure the more I see variations, the only thing not close is the OAL and I am not sure how critical that would be as long as it is not OVER the OAL. If it was a little short it should still feed and chamber.

I will just list them as 8x57 and if someone has more info than I wants to try to use them in something different, then that is on them.

Thanks for your help and input.

 

[TRAP55]

"SL" headstamp is for the St Louis Ordnance Plant, St Louis, MO . They shut down at the end of WWII, but fired back up for the Korean and Viet Nam wars. Begs the question, why were the producing 8x57 in 1954, and who for?

 

[gdmoody]

I'm not totally convinced that it is a 8X57 without seeing at least one clear side view picture of the round.

 

[SSGWerwolf]

Best I can do right now.

 

[SSGWerwolf]

little better pic

 

[sharps4590]

TRAP, isn't that case Berdan primed? I guess it's impossible to tell from an internet picture and something to compare it to. It just looks big to me. That and, with the later pictures, would they load soft point hunting bullets?

The overall length is going to vary simply because of nose damage.

 

[TRAP55]

It's a military St Louis headstamp, and I don't know of any Berdan brass that was loaded here. My guess with that softpoint bullet, it's 30/06 reformed to 8x57 and reloaded.

 

[Kosh75287]

Begs the question, why were they producing 8x57 in 1954, and who for?

West Germany didn't join NATO until mid 1955, so this ammo could have been originally manufactured for their still-in-use MG34s and 42s. Egypt and Turkey, who were German allies in WWII, also had plenty of ordnance chambered for 8x57, and the SL plant may have been chugging out that caliber to supply one NATO member and an ostensible ally in the middle east.
I suspect that the soft point projectile was some private shooter's attempt to convert military ball to more humane hunting fodder, but that's sheer conjecture.

 

[sharps4590]

It's a military St Louis headstamp, and I don't know of any Berdan brass that was loaded here. My guess with that softpoint bullet, it's 30/06 reformed to 8x57 and reloaded.

SSG did say they weren't all the same headstamp and, as easy as it is to make 8 X 57 from '06 and the hunting bullets AND the discrepancy in case length that does seem to make the most sense. You can also see where the neck and shoulder have been annealed, a normal step of reforming brass.

 

[Kosh75287]

I like Trap55's analysis better.

 

[TRAP55]

SSG did say they weren't all the same headstamp and, as easy as it is to make 8 X 57 from '06 and the hunting bullets AND the discrepancy in case length that does seem to make the most sense. You can also see where the neck and shoulder have been annealed, a normal step of reforming brass.

Great minds think alike? That's all the things I was looking at too. Cutting the '06 case, then reforming would account for the .5mm shorter case too, but you already knew that.