A Limp Wrist? Me?????

Discussion in 'The 1911 Forum' started by ysacres, Mar 7, 2003.

  1. ysacres

    ysacres Moderator Moderator Supporting Member

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    Loki
    Member
    Posts: 16
    (7/16/02 7:15:02 pm)
    Reply A Limp Wrist? Me?????
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    I usually shoot 9mm, with an every week or two dip into my 357Sig for a few rounds to keep in practice with that. I haven't shot 45 cal much at all. Recently I got a Kimber Ultra Carry 45, 3 inch barrel, stainless. Really a good looking little concealable. There's only one problem, and that's a frequent failure to feed properly. It's happened 6 or 7 times in 250 rounds.

    The gun was bought used, from a gunshop, and I bought 3 new Wilson mags to go with it. The former owner said he didn't have any real problems with it, and that may be totally true. The feed problem isn't associated with any specific mag that I can tell. When one fails I do further testing on it immediately, but haven't isolated a mag as a problem.

    The recoil spring is about the same length as one from a new pistol. For lubrication of the slide, I'm putting a drop of Militec-1 on each side after field stripping and cleaning.

    I also bought a new Kimber Custom 45, with a 5 inch barrel, and haven't had any problems at all with it. Recoil on it is a little less than the 3" barrel Kimber, but not a huge amount.

    The advice the gunshop/range is giving me in regard to this problem is to make sure I'm not limp wristing the gun. I'm trying to do that, but the failure to feed still happens.

    My question is this: is there a way to tell a shooter induced problem of this sort from one caused by the gun itself? The failure most often is a round that keeps the slide partially open or allows the slide to close but doesn't enter the barrel.

    If I'm limp wristing this, I need to work on that obviously, and if I can isolate it to that, would like to do so. First I'd like to isolate what the problem is, though, because I haven't had the problem with any of my Sigs (9 mm or 2340) or 9 mm HK's.

    Any advice from more experienced hands (and wrists) appreciated.

    --Loki

    Edited by: Loki at: 7/16/02 8:37:06 pm

    shooter45 us
    *TFF Chief Of Staff*
    Posts: 1620
    (7/16/02 7:59:48 pm)
    Reply Re: A Limp Wrist? Me?????
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    What brand and grain ammo are you shooting ? Does the problem occur with different types of ammo ? Could be the recoil spring is weak.

    Also, you could possibly be relaxing your grip. It's easy to do during a long range session. Keep a firm grip.

    Loki
    Member
    Posts: 18
    (7/16/02 11:43:44 pm)
    Reply Re: A Limp Wrist? Me?????
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    Haven't tried different sorts of ammo, good point. The guns I've gotten over the last 6 months since I started aquiring them have been pretty good about eating anything they're fed, and that probably isn't the case with the Kimber Ultra Carry. I've had more failures to feed with it than with 9 other pistols put together over 6x the time.

    It may be a grip problem, and that's what I'm hoping to get figured out. The failures occurred early and late in the session both, and I was doing my damndest to control the grip, but that doesn't rule it out as a cause, unfortunately.

    When I asked at the shop about how to judge if a recoil spring was weak, I was given the answer that old ones would be shorter. This is a double spring, and pretty complex, so that's something that could be solved by a simple replacement with a new one.

    One thing I haven't done also is to get somebody who has experience with 45's this size to put a box of ammo through it and see if they have the same problem.

    I'm beginning to have a great deal more respect for the way Sigs and HK's are built.

    --Loki



    Xracer
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 2487
    (7/17/02 7:58:19 am)
    Reply Re: A Limp Wrist? Me?????
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    I'm assuming you're using factory ammo and not handloads.

    First thing I'd check.....remove the slide....leave the barrel pinned to the frame.....hold the barrel in the "feed" position.... see if you can feel any sort of a "step" where the feed ramp interfaces with the barrel. If you do, and if you're using anything but round-nose bullets, that's probably your problem.

    You may have to polish and blend the feedramp/barrel interface.

    If that's not your problem....how do you hold your gun when you fire? One hand hold or two handed?

    Try this (assuming you're right-handed). Hold gun in right hand....firmly grasp your right wrist with your left hand....keep both elbows "loose" and let the elbows rock with the recoil. If you're "limp wristing", you should feel it with your left hand.

    shooter45 us
    *TFF Chief Of Staff*
    Posts: 1627
    (7/17/02 8:11:24 am)
    Reply Re: A Limp Wrist? Me?????
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    Don't think it will be a feedramp problem on a Kimber.

    Change the recoil spring if your sure you're grip is right.

    Loki
    Member
    Posts: 19
    (7/17/02 10:11:32 am)
    Reply Re: A Limp Wrist? Me?????
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    The only ammo I've tried is CCI Blazer 230 gr FMJ, because I had a case come in and didn't think to try others. I'll try some better quality later this week. Considering the cost of 45 ammo, it might be time to think about reloading.

    It's no doubt a good idea to change the spring out anyway; the gun was used when I got it, and I don't have a clue as to how many rounds went through it since the last change.

    I'm holding the gun two handed, strong (R) hand high as possible, with most of the pressure from the weak hand. Patterns are pretty good, no indication of flinch, most into the black at 21 ft. using 1A targets.

    Thanks for the advice, this is my first 45 (or first two, as it turned out) and they have a set of characteristics I'm not used to yet. If it's grip that causing the problem it will be a big relief, because I can fix that. It would mean the 3" barrel model is *very* sensitive to grip, though, because it's the first gun I've gotten this problem with.

    --Loki

    Edited by: Loki at: 7/17/02 11:17:13 am

    shooter45 us
    *TFF Chief Of Staff*
    Posts: 1628
    (7/17/02 11:56:56 am)
    Reply Re: A Limp Wrist? Me?????
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    Blazer ammo is pretty hot.

    Change the spring.

    Loki
    Member
    Posts: 20
    (7/19/02 12:47:29 am)
    Reply Re: A Limp Wrist? Me?????
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    Thanks for all the info. I tried 3 kinds of ammo over the last couple of days, brass instead of aluminum, and out of 200+ rounds had *no* FTF. PMC, Sellier and Bellot and PMP all seem to be OK (so far so good).

    The recoil spring seemed like a really good idea, and I've ordered a new one. It will be needed sooner or later in any event.

    Off to Firearms Academy of Seattle this weekend for some basic training!

    --Loki



    Tac401
    Administrator
    Posts: 5393
    (7/19/02 9:37:06 pm)
    Reply
    Re: A Limp Wrist? Me?????
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    I don't care for CCI except for their 22's!

    I think the CCI was your problem, not the gun!

    Just a hunch!
    TFF VMBB Email Tac

    Smoky14
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 211
    (7/20/02 8:11:14 am)
    Reply Re: A Limp Wrist? Me?????
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    LOKI LIMP WRIST does have nice ring to it

    Just joking there Loki

    Loki
    Member
    Posts: 24
    (7/21/02 11:18:27 pm)
    Reply Re: A Limp Wrist? Me?????
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    It's OK, Smokey. Though I should warn you that anyone who messes with a Norse god is likely to have a curse put on them, and it can be bad. Very bad.

    The last guy I know of that it happened to had all his kids grow up to be liberals. And two of them became congressional pages.

    What else can I say?

    --Loki

    Xracer
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 2511
    (7/22/02 7:29:34 am)
    Reply Re: A Limp Wrist? Me?????
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    My wife used to tell me I was built like a Greek God....or did she say "A goddamn Greek"?

    warpig883
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 4086
    (7/22/02 7:31:21 am)
    Reply
    Re: A Limp Wrist? Me?????
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    Zig I think it was Goddamn GEEK
    "I'M NOT GOING TO HAVE SOME REPORTERS PAWING THROUGH OUR PAPERS. WE ARE THE PRESIDENT." - Hillary Clinton commenting on the release of subpoenaed documents

    LIKTOSHOOT
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 5504
    (7/25/02 1:44:33 pm)
    Reply Re: A Limp Wrist? Me?????
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    Limp wristing a pistol is not hard to do, and many use a firm grip....to offset this. Firm grip has little to do with limp wristing a pistol. You can have a light grip and "lock" your wrist. You don`t have to squeeze the crap out of it. I also believe Blazer in crap for a .45acp and the aluminum case`s are crap too. I think it is a combination of two things, Blazer and limp wristing.......more in the wrist when using Blazer. It is normally a hotter load than other shelf ammo. I don`t know how old that pistol is, or how many rounds went through it prior to you owning it, but doubt that spring would go sour so fast. That styled pistol uses a dual captured spring and I have yet to see one die under normal use. Best LTS

    rayra
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 346
    (7/25/02 2:29:17 pm)
    Reply Re: A Limp Wrist? Me?????
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    sounds like a combination of dirty / rough chamber and that crappy alum. casing Blazer ammo.
    I'd clean the piece thoroughly and try the Blazer again.
    Then clean again and try some nice 'standard' FMJ / Brass ammo to see if the same problem occurs.

    If you want to keep using the Blazer ammo, I'd recommend you have the feed ramp and chamber polished up, and install a slightly stronger spring setup.

    Loki
    Member
    Posts: 26
    (7/25/02 7:08:38 pm)
    Reply Re: A Limp Wrist? Me?????
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    The advice to avoid aluminum is spot on, from what I have seen the last few days. My little Ultra Carry doesn't feed with Blazer, but hasn't missed with regular brass, at least the 3 kinds I've tried.

    To add to it, the fullsize Kimber Custom 2 I recently got new also doesn't like aluminum. I tried out the Blazer on it, and for the first time started getting failure to feed. Back to brass and the problem goes away.

    Hey, what can I say, I got spoiled when all I shot were Sig 9mm, because they don't care if it's Blazer or not, or at least the 2 cases I put through them never gave any trouble.

    Now that the ammo is (hopefully) sorted out, maybe I can dry fire only when it's intentional. There's just something much better about that.....

    Thanks again for all the good advice, and for taking time to help.

    --Loki