The Firearms Forum banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,002 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I finally got my hands on my brother’s Knight Wolverine 209 yesterday. It’s a modern, inline .50 caliber muzzleloader. Kind of a different beastie from the others.

Anyway, I was going to take it apart to clean it this afternoon but mistakes were made.

First of all, my brother left the darn thing loaded! There was no cap on the nipple but it has sat for almost 10 years with a 50 grain Pyrodex pellet and a conical bullet in the barrel. I really don’t know how or why that happened. He was usually very meticulous when it came to caring for his firearms. (And the rest of his stuff.)

When I unscrewed the breech plug from the barrel, the Pyrodex pellet fell out with no issues. The bullet was another issue. It took a lot of sweat and foul language to get that puppy out. Unfortunately, in the process of dislodging the bullet, I buggered up the threads for the breech plug. 🙁 Now I can’t get it back in.

So, it looks like a trip to the gun shop on Tuesday afternoon to see if the barrel can be re threaded. I should have been more careful but I hopefully won’t have to ever repeat that performance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,256 Posts
It will most likely be a 5/8 x 18 thread pitch, if you have a 5/8 x 18 tap & tap wrench you might be able to chase the threads your self. I had to chase the threads on one of them a while back and in order to turn the tap I had to use a six inch long half inch drive extension, my tap had a half inch square head on it. I put the tap in the square hole that you'd normally stick on the ratchet and used my tap wrench to turn the extension. I also needed to grind the extension a little to fit inside the bolt recess. It wasn't one of my good extensions, but those cheap Harbor Freight tools are good for modifying into specialty tools.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,306 Posts
Ah, the dreaded auto-intercourse. What on earth did you do? Just follow Griz’s advice and you’ll have your best chance of getting it up and running again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,256 Posts
One last word of advice, next time, if there is a next time, use a half inch wooden dowel to drive the bullet out. I drive them from the muzzle end. A metal rod can damage the threads and too small of a wooden dowel can break in the barrel and if the break is angled the two peices can become wedged tight. Don't ask me how I know this, I'll never admit to doing it. A lead bullet and a wooden dowel are both too soft to damage the breech threads and driving from the muzzle means you only need to move the bullet a couple of inches.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,002 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
One last word of advice, next time, if there is a next time, use a half inch wooden dowel to drive the bullet out. I drive them from the muzzle end. A metal rod can damage the threads and too small of a wooden dowel can break in the barrel and if the break is angled the two pieces can become wedged tight. Don't ask me how I know this, I'll never admit to doing it. A lead bullet and a wooden dowel are both too soft to damage the breech threads and driving from the muzzle means you only need to move the bullet a couple of inches.
I really wish I had known this before hand. I was afraid the bullet might damage the threads so I used the ram rod to pound it out the long way. When I ran out of ram rod, I used a long screwdriver set in the threads for the cleaning jag on the ramrod. (The jag itself is missing and I have other cleaning kits so I wasn't worried about those threads) Unfortunately, the screwdriver slipped and went between the rod and the inside of the barrel. THAT'S when the barrel's threads got messed up. ❌ :rolleyes:

Right now, my brother is sitting somewhere in the cosmos either laughing at me or yelling, "WHAT THE **** DID YOU DO TO MY GUN?!?!?!"
With him, either one is possible.
 

·
440
Joined
·
9,026 Posts
It will most likely be a 5/8 x 18 thread pitch, if you have a 5/8 x 18 tap & tap wrench you might be able to chase the threads your self. I had to chase the threads on one of them a while back and in order to turn the tap I had to use a six inch long half inch drive extension, my tap had a half inch square head on it. I put the tap in the square hole that you'd normally stick on the ratchet and used my tap wrench to turn the extension. I also needed to grind the extension a little to fit inside the bolt recess. It wasn't one of my good extensions, but those cheap Harbor Freight tools are good for modifying into specialty tools.
Check the plug in a die to make for sure what you have.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,160 Posts
If copper or lead damaged steel, barrels wouldn't last very long.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,256 Posts
Check the plug in a die to make for sure what you have.
It always pays to double check thread pitch and diameter, I don't use a die for it though, a caliper and thread pitch gauge is less likely to cause damage if you accidently cross thread something into a die. you van use a tap for a thread pitch gauge, if the teeth line up on the tap then you know the pitch.
True but the majority of barrels aren’t tapped with whisper fine threads either.
Most of the Knight rifles I've worked on have 5/8 x18 unf pitch breech threads, they are finer than a standard 5/8 x 11 unc hardware bolt, but aren't whisper fine, at least not in my humble opinion. I have a 1/2 x 52 tap in my tool box, I have no idea why I have it, but it's whisper fine. :)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,160 Posts
18 TPI is the same thread on 3/8 NC bolts, hardly fine. A copper jacketed or lead bullet won't phase them. Fine to me would start at 24 TPI and 32 TPI would be closer.

Griz, you could thread a really big tang sight staff screw with that.......for....say a Mountain Howitzer.........😁
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,306 Posts
I have two solid brass rods I use for driving slugs down barrels. One fits nicely in my .30 cal rifles and the other for 22s and there about’s. I figure brass is softer than steel and I’ve already experienced the frustration of braking and jamming a wood dowel in a barrel. Never do that again.....what a PITA.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,256 Posts
Firpo, that's why I use a dowel that's as close to bore size as possible, I made the mistake of using a 5/16 dowel in a .45 caliber hole, once. luckily a pair of vice grips and some elbow grease rectified the problem.

Sharps, I haven't got a mountain howitzer that needs a 1/2 by 52 tpi tang site. :) I wouldn't want to shoulder such a beast and pull the trigger on it even if I did have such a thing, the recoil would knock me into the next county. :eek:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
249 Posts
He must have had a good coating of anti seize on those plug threads for it to have even come out after all those years. Make sure you use a thread pitch guage before you even touch those threads. You could also email Lehigh bullets for the pitch. iirr they made some custom breech plugs for Knight disc rifles back in the late 2000s.

Is knight Rifles still in business where you could ask them? If not, those barrels iirr were made by Green Mountain which still is in business and might look up the specs for you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,002 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
He must have had a good coating of anti seize on those plug threads for it to have even come out after all those years. Make sure you use a thread pitch guage before you even touch those threads. You could also email Lehigh bullets for the pitch. iirr they made some custom breech plugs for Knight disc rifles back in the late 2000s.

Is knight Rifles still in business where you could ask them? If not, those barrels iirr were made by Green Mountain which still is in business and might look up the specs for you.
He definitely had a good coat of anti seize on it. The plug came out with zero effort. Then the anti seize got all over my fingers. He did his due diligence there. Makes me wonder why in the world he left it loaded. My only guess was he got called out to a fire emergency while hunting and forgot about it being loaded. He was later killed on his motorcycle before getting the chance to use it again.

They are still in business but under new corporate ownership since the founder passed in 2013. They moved out of Iowa to Tennessee as well. Everything I have read about them says their customer service went straight into the toilet after that. One guy had to file a complaint with the BBB before they finally repaired and returned his rifle. Others have said it is almost impossible to get a response to phone messages or emails. Doesn’t instill a lot of confidence in them helping out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
249 Posts

Lehigh once made a breech plug for the disc elites by Knight with that vent liner installed. I'm not certain if your Wolverine model uses the same breech plug or not. It might since it uses the 209 primer. I'd have to dig out an old catalog.

So sorry to hear about your brother's untimely passing. Being called out to a fire emergency could sure do it. I have always had a great admiration and respect for all the fire fighters out there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,002 Posts
Discussion Starter #16

Lehigh once made a breech plug for the disc elites by Knight with that vent liner installed. I'm not certain if your Wolverine model uses the same breech plug or not. It might since it uses the 209 primer. I'd have to dig out an old catalog.

So sorry to hear about your brother's untimely passing. Being called out to a fire emergency could sure do it. I have always had a great admiration and respect for all the fire fighters out there.
The 209 uses a full plastic jacket over the primer. Different system than the disks.

It was rough when we lost him. Mom is still holding on to a lot of his stuff. Been 9 years and still doesn’t seem entirely real sometimes.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,160 Posts
I have a question, why didn't you just shoot the darn thing? You were going to clean it anyway.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
249 Posts
Yup, it is different than the disc models, though it is probably very similar. I'd still contact Green Mountain in case they made the barrels for them years ago; especially if Knight won't respond to questions. That, or just measure it. I looked on line for the thread specs and didn't find them but that doesn't mean they are not listed somewhere. Lots of Wolverines out there, although I think the 209 model did come later than some earlier models that used the #11s.

I hope those threads chase out cleanly for you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,002 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
I think I’m going to give the local gunsmith first crack at it. I trust it in his hands more than mine. He rebuilt my dad’s .22LR after my uncle splintered the stock while playing golf with a gopher’s head. (Another long, ridiculous story.) The guy knows his stuff when it comes to firearms.
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top