Afghanistan report

Discussion in 'General Military Arms & History Forum' started by ampaterry, May 23, 2011.

  1. ampaterry

    ampaterry *TFF Admin Staff Chaplain* Staff Member Supporting Member

    Dec 20, 2008
    West Tennessee
    A mirine in Afghanistan wrote this.

    Some surprises here - to me, at least.

    Combat Firearms "Report Card" from Afghanistan

    This email is from a Marine who's in Afghanistan ; his buddy Jordan provides many of the details. No politics here; just a Marine with a bird's eye view opinion.

    US Weapons:
    1) The M-16 rifle: Thumbs down. Chronic jamming problems with the talcum powder like sand over there. The sand is everywhere. Jordan says you feel filthy 2 minutes after coming out of the shower. The M-4 carbine version is more popular because it's lighter and shorter, but it has jamming problems also. They lack the ability to mount the various optical gun sights and weapons lights on the pica tinny rails, but the weapon itself is not great in a desert environment.

    They all hate the 5.56mm (.223) round. Poor penetration on the cinder block structure common over there and even torso hits can't be reliably counted on to put the enemy down.

    Fun fact: Random autopsies on dead insurgents show a high level of opiate use.

    2) The M243 SAW (squad assault weapon): .223 cal. Drum fed light machine gun. Big thumbs down. Universally considered a piece of ****. Chronic jamming problems, most of which require partial disassembly (that's fun in the middle of a firefight).

    3) The M9 Beretta 9mm: Mixed bag. Good gun performs well in desert environment; but they all hate the 9mm cartridge. The use of handguns for self-defense is actually fairly common. Same old story on the 9mm: Bad guys hit multiple times and still in the fight.

    4) Mossberg 12ga. Military shotgun: Works well, used frequently for clearing houses to good effect. (Great weapon - I used these when transporting prisoners.

    5) The M240 Machine Gun: 7.62 NATO (.308) cal. belt fed machine gun, developed to replace the old M-60 (what a beautiful weapon that was!!) Thumbs up. Accurate, reliable, and the 7.62 round puts 'em down. Originally developed as a vehicle mounted weapon, more and more are being dismounted and taken into the field by infantry. The 7.62 round chews up the structure over there.

    6) The M2 50 cal heavy machine gun: Thumbs way, way up. "Ma Deuce" is still worth her considerable weight in gold. The ultimate fight stopper - puts their dicks in the dirt every time. The most coveted weapon in-theater.

    7) The .45 pistol: Thumbs up. Still the best pistol around out there. Everybody authorized to carry a sidearm is trying to get their hands on one. With few exceptions, one can reliably be expected to put 'em down with a torso hit. The special ops guys (who are doing most of the pistol work) use the HK military model and supposedly love it. The old government model .45's are being re-issued en masse.

    8) The M-14: Thumbs up. They are being re-issued in bulk, mostly in a modified version to special ops guys. Modifications include lightweight Kevlar stocks and low power red dot or ACOG sights. Very reliable in the sandy environment, and they love the 7.62 round.

    9) The Barrett .50 cal sniper rifle: Thumbs way up. Spectacular range and accuracy and hits like a freight train. Used frequently to take out vehicle suicide bombers (we actually stop a lot of them) and barricaded enemy. It is definitely here to stay.

    10) The M24 sniper rifle: Thumbs up. Mostly in .308 but some in 300 win mag. heavily modified Remington 700's. Great performance. Snipers have been used heavily to great effect. Rumor has it a marine sniper on his third tour in Anbar province has actually exceeded Carlos Hathcock's record for confirmed kills with OVER 100.

    11) The new body armor: Thumbs up. Relatively light at approx. 6 lbs. and can reliably be expected to soak up small shrapnel and even will stop an AK-47 round. The bad news: Hot as **** to wear, almost unbearable in the summer heat (which averages over 120 degrees). Also, the enemy now goes for head shots whenever possible. All the bullshit about the "old" body armor making our guys vulnerable to the IED's was a non-starter. The IED explosions are enormous and body armor doesn't make any difference at all in most cases.

    12) Night Vision and Infrared Equipment: Thumbs way up. Spectacular performance. Our guys see in the dark and own the night, period. Very little enemy action after evening prayers. More and more enemy being whacked at night during movement by our hunter-killer teams. We've all seen the videos.

    13) Lights: Thumbs up. Most of the weapon mounted and personal lights are Surefire's, and the troops love 'em. Invaluable for night urban operations. Jordan carried a $34 Surefire G2 on a neck lanyard and loved it. I can't help but notice that most of the good fighting weapons and ordnance are 50 or more years old!! With all our technology, it's the WWII and Vietnam era weapons that everybody wants!! The infantry fighting is frequent, up close and brutal. No quarter is given or shown.

    Bad guy weapons:
    1) Mostly AK47's. The entire country is an arsenal. Works better in the desert than the M16 and the .308 Russian round kills reliably. PKM belt fed light machine guns are also common and effective. Luckily, the enemy mostly shoots like ****. Undisciplined "spray and pray" type fire. However, they are seeing more and more precision weapons, especially sniper rifles. ( Iran , again)

    2) The RPG: Probably the infantry weapon most feared by our guys. Simple, reliable and as common as dogshit. The enemy responded to our up-armored Humvees by aiming at the windshields, often at point blank range. Still killing a lot of our guys.

    3) The IED: The biggest killer of all. Can be anything from old Soviet anti-armor mines to jury rigged artillery shells. A lot found in Jordan ’s area were in abandoned cars. The enemy would take 2 or 3 155 mm artillery shells and wire them together. Most were detonated by cell phone and the explosions are enormous. You're not safe in any vehicle, even an M1 tank. Driving is by far the most dangerous thing our guys do over there. Lately, they are much more sophisticated "shape charges" (Iranian) specifically designed to penetrate armor.

    Fun fact: Most of the ready made IED's are supplied by Iran , who is also providing terrorists (Hezbollah types) to train the insurgents in their use and tactics. That's why the attacks have been so deadly lately. Their concealment methods are ingenious, the latest being shape charges, in Styrofoam containers spray painted to look like the cinder blocks that litter all Iraqi roads. We find about 40% before they detonate, and the bomb disposal guys are unsung heroes of this war.

    4) Mortars and rockets: Very prevalent. The soviet era 122mm rockets (with an 18km range) are becoming more prevalent. One of Jordan ’s NCO's lost a leg to one. These weapons cause a lot of damage "inside the wire". Jordan 's base was hit almost daily his entire time there by mortar and rocket fire, often at night to disrupt sleep patterns and cause fatigue (It did). More of a psychological weapon than anything else. The enemy mortar teams would jump out of vehicles, fire a few rounds, and then haul ass in a matter of seconds.

    Fun fact: Captured enemy have apparently marveled at the marksmanship of our guys and how hard they fight. They are apparently told in Jihad school that the Americans rely solely on technology, and can be easily beaten in close quarters combat for their lack of toughness. Let's just say they know better now.

    Bad guy technology: Simple yet effective. Most communication is by cell and satellite phones and also by email on laptops. They use handheld GPS units for navigation and "Google Earth" for overhead views of our positions. Their weapons are good, if not fancy, and prevalent. Their explosives and bomb technology is TOP OF THE LINE. Night vision is rare. They are very careless with their equipment and the GPS units and laptops are treasure troves of Intel when captured.

    Who are the bad guys? These are mostly "foreigners", non-Afghan Arab Jihadists from all over the Muslim world (and Europe ). Some are virtually untrained young Jihadists that often end up as suicide bombers or in various "sacrifice squads". Most, however, are hard core terrorists from all the usual suspects (Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, Hamas etc.). These are the guys running around murdering civilians en masse and cutting heads off.

    The Chechens (many of whom are Caucasian) are supposedly the most ruthless and the best fighters. They have been fighting the Russians for years. The terrorists have been very adept at infiltrating the Afghan local govt., the police forces and the Army. They have had a spy and agitator network there since the Iran-Iraq war in the early 80's.

    Bad Guy Tactics: When they are engaged on an infantry level they get their asses kicked every time! Brave, but stupid. Suicidal Banzai-type charges were very common earlier in the war and still occur. They will literally sacrifice 8-10 man teams in suicide squads by sending them screaming and firing AK's and RPG's directly at our bases just to probe the defenses. They get mowed down like grass every time (see the M2 and M240 above). Jordan ’s base was hit like this often. When engaged, they have a tendency to flee to the same building, probably for what they think will be a glorious last stand. Instead, we call in air and that's the end of that more often than not. These hole-ups are referred to as Alpha Whiskey Romeo's (Allah's Waiting Room).

    Finding leaders is hard, but they are getting better. Many Afghanis’ were galvanized and the caliber of recruits in the Army and the police forces went right up, along with their motivation. It also led to an exponential increase in good intel because the Afghani's are sick of the insurgent attacks against civilians.

    Fun fact: The enemy death toll is supposedly between 45-50 thousand. That is why we're seeing less and less infantry attacks and more IED, suicide bomber ****. The new strategy is just simple attrition. The insurgent tactic most frustrating is their use of civilian noncombatants as cover. They know we do all we can to avoid civilian casualties and therefore schools, hospitals and especially Mosques are locations where they meet, stage for attacks, cache weapons, and ammo and flee to when engaged. They have absolutely no regard whatsoever for inflicting civilian casualties. They will terrorize locals and murder without hesitation anyone believed to be sympathetic to the Americans. Kidnapping of family members, especially children, is common to influence people they are trying to influence but can't reach, such as local govt. officials, clerics, tribal leaders, etc.. The first thing our guys are told is "don't get captured". They know that if captured they will be tortured and beheaded on the internet. They openly offer bounties for anyone who brings in a live American serviceman. This motivates the criminal element who otherwise don't give a **** about the war. A lot of the beheading victims were actually kidnapped by common criminals and sold to them. As such, for our guys, every fight is to the death. Surrender is not an option. The Afghani's are a mixed bag. Some fight well; others aren't worth a damn. Most do okay with American support.

    We have the laser guided ground-air thing down to a science. The fast mover's, mostly Marine F-18's, are taking an ever increasing toll on the enemy. When caught out in the open, the helicopter gunships and AC-130 Spectre Gunships cut them to ribbons with cannon and rocket fire, especially at night. Interestingly, artillery is hardly used at all.

    Morale: According to Jordan , morale among our guys is very high. They not only believe that they are winning, but that they are winning decisively. They are stunned and dismayed by what they see in the American press, whom they almost universally view as against them. The embedded reporters are despised and distrusted. Our guys are inflicting casualties at a rate of 20-1 and then see lies like "Are we losing in Iraq ” on TV and the print media. For the most part, our guys are satisfied with their equipment, food, and leadership. Bottom line though, and they all say this, is that there are not enough guys there to drive the final stake through the heart of the insurgency, primarily because there aren't enough troops in-theater to shut down the borders with Afghanistan and Pakistan. The Iranians and the Syrians just can't stand the thought of Afghanistan being an American ally (with, of course, permanent US bases there).
  2. hogger129

    hogger129 Well-Known Member

    Nov 29, 2009
    How do the rifles in 6.8 Remington SPC sit with them? It seems like that would be kind of a compromise between the 7.62 round and the 5.56 round as it's got the power, but is lighter to carry.

    They should go back to the 1911s. The HKs are nice, had the opportunity to shoot a few in the past, but they're expensive - more than the standard military-spec 1911. And they are a big gun. As in big grip, wider gun. It's just tougher to manipulate IMO than a 1911.

    Maybe those M1 Garands Obama refused to allow to be repartriated to the United States should go out to our boys in Afghanistan. I bet a .30-06 round will drop an insurgent fast.
    Last edited: May 23, 2011

  3. permafrost

    permafrost Active Member

    Feb 24, 2010
    Oklahoma, USA
    Thanks for the post.
    It is a very interesting read. Still amazes me, the resilence of our troops, and their ability to maintain morale.
  4. Old Grump

    Old Grump New Member

    Feb 21, 2010
    Little hut in the woods near Blue River Wisconsin
    This has been going around since 2005, no author found. If you read it carefully you will find constituencies in it. Nice read but probably not done by a marine, at least not one in the field.
  5. ampaterry

    ampaterry *TFF Admin Staff Chaplain* Staff Member Supporting Member

    Dec 20, 2008
    West Tennessee
    Wow, OG, I did not know it was that old. I am surprised I have not come upon it before, and apologize for passing it off as recent -

    But thought it had merit enough to publish, so must be FAIRLY accurate -
  6. Charlie the sniper

    Charlie the sniper New Member

    Dec 14, 2008
    England, thats the USN aircraft carrier near europ
    Very interesting reading. My friend did 9 tours in Afghanistan, with the Royal Marines (British), and he's told me the same things too. 9mm & 5.56, a big thumbs down. He also talks about the "Chechens" and also "Pakistani" mortar teams.
    He also talks about US troops/pilots in a very positive way.

    God Bless ALL OUR troops.
  7. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

    Dec 6, 2009
    The enemy also knows, as the enemy in Vietnam knew, that the U.S. won't stay. Our politicians and people simply do not have the guts for a long war. Whether our soldiers fight well makes no difference. The American press is ALWAYS on the side of the enemy and will eventually convince the American public that the war can't be won and we must get our troops out.

    They know that, we know that, and the people in the middle know that. A member of the Taliban reportedly told a village council, "You may work with the Americans if you want, but the Americans will leave, and we will still be here. And if you worked with the Americans, we will kill you." It is as simple as that. No BS there, no political "spin". Just direct and to the point - "we will kill you."

  8. hogger129

    hogger129 Well-Known Member

    Nov 29, 2009
    Trouble is that our politicians tie one hand to out troops' ankles out there... Like in Vietnam, they wouldn't invade the North Vietnam probably because they were afraid of Chinese involvement like in Korea, or worse yet the Russians getting into it.

    Just like now they fear that attacking the source of terrorism - like Iran and Pakistan - they fear a 'religious war' that will never end. And the threat that these countries possess via nuclear weapons or other WMD.

    And remember that it is kind of our fault that Iran is the way it is. We screwed with their democractically elected government back in 1953, resulting in the Shah who was brutal to those people - then they got that Ayatollah and they're still stuck with those people to this day. If we had kept out of there, the situation probably would be entirely different.
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