American POW in Iraq

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by 1952Sniper, Mar 6, 2003.

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  1. 1952Sniper

    1952Sniper New Member

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    warpig883
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 5827
    (1/10/03 8:58:00 am)
    Reply
    American POW in Iraq
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    If this is true we should mobilize for war and turn that country inside out to get him back. I will support war to in an attempt to get that one American soldier.

    www.washtimes.com/nationa...937660.htm

    Ignorance is a crime in 49 states. In the other one it is bliss.


    1952Sniper
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 840
    (1/10/03 8:58:58 am)
    Reply | Edit Re: American POW in Iraq
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    I heard that on the radio this morning...... if it's true, then I'm all for it too.

    I just hope it's not a bait tactic.
    Macht kaputt, was euch kaputt macht!


    MTaylor
    Member
    Posts: 21
    (1/10/03 10:36:03 am)
    Reply Re: American POW in Iraq
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    I haven't heard that. Not in the Reuters News of the New York Times online. Anyone have a source?


    warpig883
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 5829
    (1/10/03 12:02:03 pm)
    Reply
    Re: American POW in Iraq
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    I have seen it in the news a couple times in the past year. Every time they changed the status of the pilot there was a news article. The story above, that appeared in the Washinton Times, should list a source.
    Ignorance is a crime in 49 states. In the other one it is bliss.


    dksdks
    Member
    Posts: 32
    (1/10/03 12:15:41 pm)
    Reply Re: American POW in Iraq
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    A few thoughts...

    Why is this released now i ask?

    Has the military known about it and kept it quiet so that they can use it as an excuse for war when the time is right?

    Is it true or is it just being made up as an excuse to justify the war to the american public?

    These scenarios have happenned before so until the full story is out no judgement can be made.


    MTaylor
    Member
    Posts: 22
    (1/10/03 12:55:59 pm)
    Reply Re: American POW in Iraq
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    Are we talking about Navy Lt. Cmdr. Michael Scott Speicher, shot down in Iraq in 1991?

    If so...

    This has been discussed over and over again just about everywhere, and it has been an ongoing concern. It wasn't just released again. Last I knew, about August, they still had no proof that he was alive or not.

    And by the way, it should still be a concern for the present administration. It should have been more of one for the past two administrations.


    warpig883
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 5839
    (1/10/03 1:05:51 pm)
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    Re: American POW in Iraq
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    Quote:
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    This has been discussed over and over again just about everywhere, and it has been an ongoing concern. It wasn't just released again. Last I knew, about August, they still had no proof that he was alive or not.
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    You are right it is old news, However the date on the above story is Jan 10th. It has been brought to the front again for a reason I am sure. You are right to say the prior administrations should have been more active on this. This would be the tide turner for me as far as attacking Iraq goes. Even just a hint of Iraq hold a POW is reason enough.

    Thing is, who knows if it is propaganda or not. By the track records of politicians none of us would be surprised if it is. No matter how much we want to believe our Government (and I think most of us do want to) I would not put it past them to do some fabricating or embellishing of the story to suit their needs. That being said, I don't think we can afford to doubt them. The thought of a chance that one soldier is left behind and still alive removes my reservations about Iraq and the possibility of war. We should have NO MERCY and then publish to the world the reason we destroyed them was because of ONE AMERICAN SOLDIER.
    Ignorance is a crime in 49 states. In the other one it is bliss.


    MTaylor
    Member
    Posts: 23
    (1/10/03 1:23:35 pm)
    Reply Re: American POW in Iraq
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    You are so right...we should have walked through Iraq in 1991 and made sure no American was left in the country. It was probably wrong for the US to not do that in 1991, and if they reserved any action until now so as to have an excuse to invade Iraq at this time then that too is wrong.


    1952Sniper
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 844
    (1/10/03 1:45:30 pm)
    Reply | Edit Re: American POW in Iraq
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    Quote:
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    This would be the tide turner for me as far as attacking Iraq goes. Even just a hint of Iraq hold a POW is reason enough.
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    Whoa, wait a minute. If POWs are enough to warrant a war, then we have a lot of other countries to attack first. Not to mention that we are holding a lot of POWs (well, "enemy combatants") from other countries.

    Holding a POW is a legitimate action. That's not really the issue. The issue is that they have violated the Geneva convention, and that they are threatening to execute him if we attack. That, to me, is the tide-turner.

    I fully agree that we should have gotten him out long before now. No telling what the poor guy has been through in the last 12 years. I would venture to say that his status as POW should be changed/upgraded to hostage.
    Macht kaputt, was euch kaputt macht!


    warpig883
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 5841
    (1/10/03 1:52:39 pm)
    Reply
    Re: American POW in Iraq
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    Quote:
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    If POWs are enough to warrant a war, then we have a lot of other countries to attack first. Not to mention that we are holding a lot of POWs (well, "enemy combatants" from other countries.
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    Yep, if there are any countries holding American soldiers they should feel the wrath of the USA. If we cannot protect and honor our soldiers enough by doing EVERYTHING in our power to bring them home then what is the use of having a volunteer military.

    I don't care if Iraq is armed with slingshots or nukes, if they are sitting on oil or sand. A quick and merciless justice is long over due if they have a US soldier.

    Ignorance is a crime in 49 states. In the other one it is bliss.


    1952Sniper
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 847
    (1/10/03 1:59:02 pm)
    Reply | Edit Re: American POW in Iraq
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    From an emotional standpoint, I feel the same way. But if we set that precedent.... if we say it's OK to attack a country simply because they are holding a POW..... then other countries have a legitimate cause to attack us.

    We just can't be hypocritical about it. If we are going to hold POWs and expect others not to attack us for it, then we need to do the same.

    It would be nice if POWs were never part of the equation. We should never leave a soldier behind. But unfortunately, that is not the nature of war. We just need to strive to follow the Geneva convention and treat POWs humanely (which we are doing), and make sure others do the same. If they don't follow the Geneva convention, then hit them unmercifully.
    Macht kaputt, was euch kaputt macht!

    warpig883
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 5842
    (1/10/03 2:13:23 pm)
    Reply
    Re: American POW in Iraq
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    Exactly Sniper,

    Obviously if they have held a prisoner past the wars end they have not followed the Geneve Convention. I should have clarified that.

    But if we are at war with a country during the conflict I think POW retrieval should be a priority if at all possible.
    Ignorance is a crime in 49 states. In the other one it is bliss.


    MTaylor
    Member
    Posts: 24
    (1/10/03 2:29:25 pm)
    Reply Re: American POW in Iraq
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    Hold on guys. What exactly is a POW and what are the prisoners classified as in Cuba?

    A POW is a person being held who has acted according to the military orders of his country.

    The 'enemy combatants' being held by the US.. are they POWs or mercinaries?

    If another country wants any of thier countrymen back then they should be well prepared to prosecute them for the crimes they committed. In that case then I am all for that country getting thier countrymen back. However, if they want them back just to turn them loose then that country should be declared a part of the so called 'axis of evil.'

    I guess I may be kind of nieve but are we holding any legitimate POWs still????

    Edited by: MTaylor at: 1/10/03 2:30:18 pm


    1952Sniper
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 849
    (1/10/03 2:38:43 pm)
    Reply | Edit Re: American POW in Iraq
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    Some of the "enemy combatants" we are holding in Cuba should, by all rights, be considered POWs. They were acting under orders from the Taliban, which was the acting party of power in Afghanistan.

    Bush blatantly ignored the Geneva convention by declaring them "enemy combatants" or "battlefield detainees" or whatever the hell it was. He tried to say that they were ALL terrorists, just because their government sponsored terrorism.
    Macht kaputt, was euch kaputt macht!


    MTaylor
    Member
    Posts: 25
    (1/10/03 2:44:07 pm)
    Reply Re: American POW in Iraq
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    Ok, but if thier government is no longer in power then what? Are they even still in existence? (I imagine they still are, to some degree)


    bondoi
    Member
    Posts: 1
    (1/10/03 5:40:37 pm)
    Reply One Man
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    WP.......

    If this is true we should mobilize for war and turn that country inside out to get him back. I will support war to in an attempt to get that one American soldier.

    You won't support an attack on IRAQ to prevent a known madman from using WMD on people, but you will support an all out war to rescue one POW. We don't even know if he is alive.


    1952Sniper
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 850
    (1/10/03 5:51:06 pm)
    Reply | Edit Re: One Man
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    Wow, a newbie jumping in and taking you to issue, Warpig!

    I like that!

    Welcome to TFF, bondoi.
    Macht kaputt, was euch kaputt macht!


    warpig883
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 5850
    (1/10/03 9:44:12 pm)
    Reply
    Re: One Man
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    Bondoi, welcome to TFF.

    Do I know you from somewhere? If not, that is a heck of a way to jump in. I have not posted on the war matter much lately and you seem to be educated on my thoughts

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    You won't support an attack on IRAQ to prevent a known madman from using WMD on people, but you will support an all out war to rescue one POW. We don't even know if he is alive.
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    No, I am not convinced we need to go to war against a madman with WMD unless AMERICAN lives are at stake. Show me proof of this and I will be the one yelling to blow them all up.

    If the POW is alive, Yes, all out war. The sooner the better if there is a chance of getting him alive then we should act.

    If we find out they kept him after the war and he died then I would not want massive troop commital but I would support TOTAL economic sanctions for a generation of the enemy and a full scale bombing campaign to DESTROY the government responsible.

    I am not in any way going to apolagize for my intense feelings about American soldiers or American citizens. I place much more value on the life of one American than I do on the enemies of that American.

    The only chance we have of teaching them NOT to mess with us is that the consequences should be deadly, swift and without mercy.

    Do you think we should desert soldiers to their fate if they are captured? Maybe let the enemy kill them in captivity and then do nothing?

    Maybe tell them to take a "time out" or send them to their room? This has been done in the past with POW's.

    Those are my feelings, I am tired of political conversations and will try my hardest to stay out of this one now that it is going to rehash to same old thing. Wish me luck.

    I can't believe that we have a member who would not support going after an American POW. Tell me it isn't that way.

    I was a soldier and cannot think of a more honorable way to die other than protecting the ideals, rights, honors, and freedoms of the soldiers who protect our country.

    Tread lightly, for if you are advocating that we desert American POW's then you are walking on hallowed ground and cannot possibly win that arguement in the America that I know.

    Why do I get the feeling I just bit. Hook, line, and sinker

    Ignorance is a crime in 49 states. In the other one it is bliss. Edited by: warpig883 at: 1/10/03 10:02:30 pm


    bondai1
    Member
    Posts: 4
    (1/10/03 10:17:40 pm)
    Reply Don't think so
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    Do I know you from somewhere? If not, that is a heck of a way to jump in. I have not posted on the war matter much lately and you seem to be educated on my thoughts

    You know me.I know you by your post's. You stradle the wire as well as always

    Quote:
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    You won't support an attack on IRAQ to prevent a known madman from using WMD on people, but you will support an all out war to rescue one POW. We don't even know if he is alive.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    No, I am not convinced we need to go to war against a madman with WMD unless AMERICAN lives are at stake. Show me proof of this and I will be the one yelling to blow them all up.

    [/b]How many more Americans would you like to see blown up before we show the Arab world that we are not going to tolerate ANY attack on the US[/b]

    If the POW is alive, Yes, all out war. The sooner the better if there is a chance of getting him alive then we should act.

    There is no proof that he is alive. We have proof of WMD...If he were alive. The Arabs would kill him rather than allow him to be taken back alive...you should know that.

    If we find out they kept him after the war and he died then I would not want massive troop commital but I would support TOTAL economic sanctions for a generation of the enemy and a full scale bombing campaign to DESTROY the government responsible.

    Make up your mind! Do you want econimic sanctions or bombing? You can't have both.In case you haven't been paying attention...economic sanctions have been in place for the last 12 years..would you like to discuss that?[./b]

    I am not in any way going to apolagize for my intense feelings about American soldiers or American citizens. I place much more value on the life of one American than I do on the enemies of that American.

    I am not asking you for an apology.Many Americans have spent their all for Freedom....the struggle will continue..but not through appeasement...Survival depends on superior firepo

    The only chance we have of teaching them NOT to mess with us is that the consequences should be deadly, swift and without mercy.

    Do you think we should desert soldiers to their fate if they are captured? Maybe let the enemy kill them in captivity and then do nothing?

    Soldiers know what risks they take. If you were a soldier you would know that. Many have been left behind and many more will follow....

    Maybe tell them to take a "time out" or send them to their room? This has been done in the past with POW's.

    Those are my feelings, I am tired of political conversations and will try my hardest to stay out of this one now that it is going to rehash to same old thing. Wish me luck.

    I can't believe that we have a member who would not support going after an American POW. Tell me it isn't that way.

    I was a soldier and cannot think of a more honorable way to die other than protecting the ideals, rights, honors, and freedoms of the soldiers who protect our country

    If you were indeed a soldier as you proclaim.You would understand that you sacrifice your life as soon as you sign the papers and take the oath. Total commitment. You are either willing to sacrifice your life for what you believe in or your not. There are no half way commitments


    warpig883
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 5855
    (1/10/03 10:23:17 pm)
    Reply
    Re: Don't think so
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    that's what I thought
    Ignorance is a crime in 49 states. In the other one it is bliss.


    bondai1
    Member
    Posts: 6
    (1/10/03 10:29:51 pm)
    Reply Yep!
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    Same ole' WP....

    The more things change, the more they remain the same.........


    TallTLynn
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 5335
    (1/10/03 11:49:09 pm)
    Reply
    Re: Yep!
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    As always bondai, as always!


    bondai1
    Member
    Posts: 11
    (1/11/03 12:05:17 am)
    Reply Back a ya'
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    Right back at ya'


    But make sure you know who are talking to before you start the conversation.....


    TallTLynn
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 5336
    (1/11/03 12:07:38 am)
    Reply
    Re: Back a ya'
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    That would ruin all the fun!


    bondai1
    Member
    Posts: 13
    (1/11/03 12:09:58 am)
    Reply HEHEHE!
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    You sweet thing!


    Tac401
    Administrator
    Posts: 6810
    (1/11/03 2:21:49 am)
    Reply
    Re: American POW in Iraq
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    Welcome back bondai AKA-bondoi/bondai1!

    "I.D. CONFIRMED" Good to see you back, hope
    things are lookin up for you these days, a lot of
    changes/improvements have happened in your
    absense, and some huge changes for the better
    for TFF & members to follow soon, with the
    rest to come as ongoing/continually!

    Always interesting to hear from you, as par for the
    course!

    So how's things bub?

    Tac
    TFF VMBB Email Tac


    bondai1
    Member
    Posts: 16
    (1/11/03 1:04:08 pm)
    Reply Just fine thanks
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    Things are just about right, Thanks..How about you? You can kill that "bondoi" user name.No need to have an extra one floating around.
    The forum looks real good. Everyone has done an excellent job with it. The hard work show's.
    Looks like most of the old gang is here keepin' things stirred up.
    I stop in from time to time and read some of the post's, always an interesting read. I stay pretty busy most of the time. I am working on a custom 10-22 that has turned into a money vacume Lot's of fun though.

    What are you up to now? about 1400 member's? That's pretty good. How is the VMBB doing ?


    TallTLynn
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 5338
    (1/11/03 1:29:12 pm)
    Reply
    Re: Just fine thanks
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    We get along bondai, we get along!

    Sorry about the money vacuum of the 10/22 - amazing how much money some weapons can suck out of us.


    bondai1
    Member
    Posts: 17
    (1/11/03 5:58:28 pm)
    Reply Howdy
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    Hey T...

    The 10-22 will look awesome but it will be exspensive..oh well it's only money right?

    I hope it shoots good. Hate to spend a wad of cash and the thing won't hit anything....


    TallTLynn
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 5339
    (1/11/03 6:58:15 pm)
    Reply
    Re: Howdy
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    Looks are not everything bondai - but I do hope it shoots well for you.

    If'n you don't mind though I think I'll just stick with my 30-06 round - getting kinda used to it.

    Besides I seemed to have managed to get rid of all my 22 rifles for some strange reason.


    Tiger06
    Member
    Posts: 2
    (1/11/03 7:15:35 pm)
    Reply Re: Yep!
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    I'll be upfront, I am a new guy to this board. Was invited by 280 freak over on *************.. I really wanted to watch for a while before opening my big mouth. But darned if i did not bump into the one thing I can't be quiet on.

    I'm just one of many RVN vets that had the honor of being a guest of the NVA.. My time was long enough to require survival on the knowledge that I knew my guys would come after me.. and they did.. Some traditions are never broken.. We do not leave our Brothers on the battlefield..

    Over the years I have supported various attempts to revisit various unclosed POW issues in RVN.. Darned if we need another in Iraq.. If one of ours is there.. we need to be getting him out! I had thought that this particular case had been resolved.. Will be doing some serious checking into it.. Thank you..

    As for the RagHeads.. Some folks just really need shoot'en.

    I hope I have not offended anyone.. and will now shut-up and learn by observing..

    TARGETS UP!
    Tiger06


    TallTLynn
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 5340
    (1/11/03 7:35:45 pm)
    Reply
    Re: Yep!
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    Tiger06 - welcome to our boards. You'll find other vets here as well and I totally understand and agree if we've got one alive we need to go get him.

    Only problem I have with this whole thing - is the timing. It looks like a ploy to get us into a war and only that.

    On the other hand if they still do have one of ours - what the heck was our government doing leaving him behind for 10 years?


    Tiger06
    Member
    Posts: 4
    (1/11/03 8:00:19 pm)
    Reply Re: Yep!
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    TAllTLynn, Thanks for the welcome// And I do agree with you.. And if it is ever identified that our "leaders" and their spin masters used the rumor of a POW to mentor their position on Iraq, there will be hell to pay!

    It could be that with all the additional focus on the mission due to deployment announcements that the news media either found out something new or just resurfaced the subject to support air time.. Will do all I can to find out..

    Thanks again for the Welcome..

    TARGETS UP!
    Tiger06
     
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