another Model 61 value question

Discussion in 'The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum' started by brandrider, Apr 21, 2009.

  1. brandrider

    brandrider New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2009
    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    Colorado
    You help appreciated.

    I've got a postwar Winchester Model 61 .22 S.L. or L.R. with a grooved receiver and 10" pump arm. The SN is 313856. Santa Claus left it under
    the tree in the late 1950s. It has blueing wear from the pump arm both open and closed. There are very slight dings in the stock. Can you help with general value and the bigger question of what it and it's consecutive serial number be worth in the same general condition?

    Thanks.
     
  2. Jolly Bill

    Jolly Bill Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2008
    Messages:
    286
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    Brandrider,

    A late production model 61 with grooved receiver that is all original but has some normal wear would be priced at around $700 to $900 around this part of the country. I think they may be priced slightly lower here than other parts of the country.

    I just read your note again and I under estimated its condition in my statement above.

    It actually sounds very nice, maybe around 90% or a little more overall condition so I will change my estimate to $900 to $1200.

    Do you have the original box numbered to the gun? That will make the gun and box, if box is in excellent condition or better, worth probably closer to $1500 to $1800 as a set. I seen a late model 61 unfired in the box this weekend. Dealer was asking $2700.

    Its consecutive serial numbered mate would be worth about the same price alone but the two guns as a set maybe 20% higher. Serial numbered consecutive sets in boxes? Good question but I would think quite a bit.

    Just my guess. Others may offer their opinions as well.

    If your 61 is currently all original, keep it that way. Refinishing the wood or metal or drilling any extra holes in the stock or receiver will reduce its value to a collector.

    Keep it original.

    Hope this helps. Ask if you have more questions.

    Jolly
     

  3. brandrider

    brandrider New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2009
    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    Colorado
    Jolly,

    No original box numbered to the gun - I seem to recall that the rifle was broken down to fit in the box; As a kid I saved up for a real nice Black Sheep leather case that made it easy to protect the rifle.

    I had a notion that two consecutive serial numbers would be a little more than an added 20% but notions come pretty cheap. I appreciate your post and caution to keep her original.

    Again thanks.

    Tom
     
  4. Jolly Bill

    Jolly Bill Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2008
    Messages:
    286
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    Tom,

    That was just a guess on my part on the extra value consecutive numbered guns would add. Don't see too many consecutive numbered guns for sale.

    However, this past January I made my annual trek from the hinter lands of upstate NY to go west to the Las Vegas Antique Arms show that is held every year, usually at the Riviera.

    A dealer who seems to specialize in nice Winchesters had a consecutive numbered pair of Winchester model 75 Sporters. If you are not familiar with the 75, it is a bolt action, clip/box magazine fed .22LR repeater that was made in a Target model and a Sporting model. The Sporter is not a plentiful gun and most of the gun shows out this way would not likely have a Sporter anywhere in the show. Winchester made about 89,000 of them from around 1938 to 1958. Some consider them a poor mans model 52 or a fancy model 69.

    Anyway, this dealer had about 5 or 6 Sporters, two of which were consecutive numbered and in original minty condition. Asking $3500.00 for the pair. I watched a man buy the pair for $3200.00. The other Sporters he had, all nice ones, were priced in the $1250 to $1500 range as I recall. So his premium for the pair was not that much higher.

    You may already know this but I can add a little more trivia on the 75 Sporters. They came in two models differing only in the sights that were on the gun. The lower cost one had the simple barrel mounted sporting sight, Winchester style 32 to be exact. The other model had a Lyman 57E receiver sight for a couple bucks more. That consecutive pair was both models. If I was more into Winchester bolt action .22's, I would have done some serious thinking. I do have a 75 Sporter that's about a 99% gun and that will satisfy my requirements there. I favor the Winchester pumps, like your model 61. I guess I've got about 9 of them. None consecutive numbered but I do have two in their original boxes.

    Anyway, just my thoughts and too bad you didn't get any more responses.

    Jolly
     
  5. brandrider

    brandrider New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2009
    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    Colorado
    Hi Jolly,

    I've been gone awhile on the road and unconnected. I was able to go to the 44th Annual Gun Show put on by the Colorado Gun Collectors group on May 17th. I walked the entire show with tunnel vision and I saw about 25 Model 61s. The bottom line was hard to get to by just comparing rifle to rifle and their price tags. My general impression was that some booths were simply overpriced while the majority seemed to have a quality/value structure. About 10 of the .22s displayed were the same type and configuration as mine. Comparing conditions of the displayed .22s, my educated guess would place the value (in "retail" circumstances) of my .22 at $1000. It was surprising to me that most of displayed rifles were in conditions very similar to mine. Only a couple were totally low-end and a couple were very high-end like NIB.

    Two vendors had 4 or more Model 61s displayed but they generally had a variety of round and octogonal barrels, S, L, or LR, and maybe one S, L, & LR. There were no consecutive serial numbers and I should report that most of the dealers were from out-of-state. There was one dealer, a very nice fellow, that took the time to explain to me that the likelyhood of my brother having a consecutive serial number to mine was practically impossible. He seemed to have some mfg experience and was quite doubtful that consecutive SNs were even shipped in the same lots of dozens. Well, I'm still hopeful because he didn't know my Dad. If there were consecutive SNs available, my Dad would have got them or shopped til he found what he was looking for. Both Dave Cooks and the Gart Bros were volume dealers here in Denver, at the time.

    Anyway, Jolly, that's where things stand now. I really appreciate your responding to my first post. Thanks for your tips and interest. You be well.

    Tom
     
  6. Jolly Bill

    Jolly Bill Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2008
    Messages:
    286
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    Tom,

    Thanks for the update and it sounds like you had a pleasant experience at the gun show there in Colorado and had a chance to check out some of the variations of the Winchester model 61. Kinda wish I was there. Was the gun show in Denver per chance?

    I gotta tell you a story about a model 61 that I own. I purchased the gun from a Pennsylvania dealer that I have known for about 30+ years. A well known and respected dealer by the way. It is an early M61 with the short fore end and octagon barrel, a very desireable and not too common combination. The octagon 61's were single caliber only and made for .22 SHORT, .22 L. RIFLE or .22 WRF. The .22 S, L and LR were round barrel. My gun serial number 109XX was made about 1934.
    There was some dirt in the checkering of the steel buttplate so I removed the butt plate so I could clean it better. I noticed some newspaper stuffed up in the hole in the stock that accesses the bolt that attaches the stock to the receiver. I managed to get the paper out in many bits and pieces and also in the stock were two locks of very fine light brown hair and a US $1.00 bill, a 1935 Series A Silver Certificate. I managed to piece enough of the newspaper together to find out it was from a July 1936 edition of The Denver Post. From what you said, I would say the 61 was purchased right there in Denver at Cooks or Gart Brothers.
    I put the locks of hair, the dollar bill and some of the newspaper back up inside the stock.
    Pretty neat!

    Thought you might find this interesting.
    Jolly
     
Similar Threads
Forum Title Date
The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum Another Win 21 SxS - Trap Model ? Sep 9, 2004
The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum Another Iver Johnson serial number D16917 Sep 6, 2017
The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum Another Iver Johnson 32 question May 19, 2017
The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum Another WWII Mauser 98 From the Attic. What Can I learn about it? May 9, 2017
The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum Another unidentified rifle Apr 7, 2017