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Any slug shooters out there ?

4K views 31 replies 10 participants last post by  carver 
#1 ·
To kick things off I have three does with my 12 ga 870 and one very small
yote with a 20ga 870 SP I got for my brother :D. Ohio is where I roam the deer
woods. How bout yall?
 
#2 ·
Down here in the south we shoot a lot of deer with shotguns, but we mostly use 00 buck shot. Slugs work well, but you need the help of an open pattern when you kick that buck up out of heavy cover in a cutover, it's usually close, and fast! Hunting from a stand is another story, and slugs will work just fine. As a boy growing up we never bought slugs, they need to be shot at a target to determine point of aim, we just didn't have the money to waste on shooting paper, so we shot nothing but 00 Buck.
 
#3 · (Edited)
I grew up in Western New York which was shotgun only for deer, and since then have lived and hunted in PA, Ohio and now Indiana, and for the past 40 years or so of deer hunting, outside of a few years with "borrowed" rifles in PA, have always used slugs... (and those years in PA, 90% of the time I was in cover that meant RARELY you would get a shot over 90-100yds, the slugs would have been as effective as the rifles.....)

And EVERY deer of the 30 or so I've killed except 2 I got with my flintlock rifle, I've gotten with a 12 guage slug, usually a Remington 1oz slugger.

Longest shot was for my only real "trophy," my "Hoosier Record Buck" 8 pt at 192 yds....(YEAH it was a perfect set up and I do NOT recommend shooting much over 100 with slugs, but I have been shooting my '97 riot gun with slugs since 1994 and know EXACTLY what it can do if I manage to do my part....)

I have also done a lot of experimenting over the years with "tactical" shotguns and loads, slugs, buck, bucknball, buck/birdnball, balls only as well.

Slugs do NOT work well with EVERY shotgun, even some DEDICATED to slug use...and work very well with others, even some never INTENDED to shoot slugs!

You have to try many different makes of shotguns, as well as many DIFFERENT shotguns of the same make that you like, along with many types of slugs through each one, until you find the "tube" that does it the best for you....then play with sights to make the groups shrink even more....

Yeah, along the way your shoulder will HATE you, there is NOTHING pleasant about shooting THAT many slugs FROM A BENCH;):D:p But that is the ONLY way to find your "Sweet Slug Gun....."


And when you DO find that "magic tube," NEVER sell it, trade it, or in any way let it get AWAY....;)
 
#4 ·
I grew up in Western New York which was shotgun only for deer, and since then have lived and hunted in PA, Ohio and now Indiana, and for the past 40 years or so of deer hunting, outside of a few years with "borrowed" rifles in PA, have always used slugs... (and those years in PA, 90% of the time I was in cover that meant RARELY you would get a shot over 90-100yds, the slugs would have been as effective as the rifles.....)

And EVERY deer of the 30 or so I've killed except 2 I got with my flintlock rifle, I've gotten with a 12 guage slug, usually a Remington 1oz slugger.

Longest shot was for my only real "trophy," my "Hoosier Record Buck" 8 pt at 192 yds....(YEAH it was a perfect set up and I do NOT recommend shooting much over 100 with slugs, but I have been shooting my '97 riot gun with slugs since 1994 and know EXACTLY what it can do if I manage to do my part....)

I have also done a lot of experimenting over the years with "tactical" shotguns and loads, slugs, buck, bucknball, buck/birdnball, balls only as well.

Slugs do NOT work well with EVERY shotgun, even some DEDICATED to slug use...and work very well with others, even some never INTENDED to shoot slugs!

You have to try many different makes of shotguns, as well as many DIFFERENT shotguns of the same make that you like, along with many types of slugs through each one, until you find the "tube" that does it the best for you....then play with sights to make the groups shrink even more....

Yeah, along the way your shoulder will HATE you, there is NOTHING pleasant about shooting THAT many slugs FROM A BENCH;):D:p But that is the ONLY way to find your "Sweet Slug Gun....."

And when you DO find that "magic tube," NEVER sell it, trade it, or in any way let it get AWAY....;)
Well written! When I said hunting cover in cut overs, well, some of those shots are no longer than 10'! You have to walk right up to them before they will break cover, and deer are fast!
 
#5 ·
My hunting spot over the past few years is a great rifle location, but before that I mostly hunted with slugs. My first deer was a running doe at about 15 feet with my Mossberg 500 and a slug. I prefer slug hunting because as polishshooter said, Northeast hunting involves a lot of thick woods, perfect terrain for tough slugs. Plus, my preferred hunting rifle an hierloom in pristine shape, so on bad days my beat up old shotgun gets always gets the call.
 
#6 ·
I know y'all have got some good hunting up north. We do down here in the south to. I almost always hunt the honeysuckle thickets, and like your first deer, hunting thick cover means really close shots! The longest distance I have ever shot a deer is about 125 yards, and that with a rifle. The closest was about 10', and that with a shotgun.
 
#7 ·
Not to mention, the knock down power of a slug is immense. My .30-06 always kills them, but I've never literally knocked a deer over with it, they run till they fall (the closer the better of course)! But every deer I've hit with my slug gun has literally been knocked right off of its feet. Can't beat that!
 
#8 ·
Consider the size of the bullet. A 30.06 will deliver around 2500 fpe at muzzle velocities, while the run of the mill 12 ga slug will give you around 2200 fpe at muzzle velocities. The aerodynamics of the 30.06 bullet will cause it to "slip" thru the traget. If it expands it will only expand to about 1 1/2 times it's original size. I've seen slugs expand to the size of a .50 cent peice. That slug is just a big ole piece of soft lead! Impact from a slug is enormous, it gives up it's energy really fast! 30.06 bullets usually go all the way thru, wasted energy.
 
#9 ·
Muzzle Velocity and energy of 1 oz slugs at somewhere around 2000 fps or so IS very impressive, but don't get TOO excited....

Energy and velocity drops QUICKLY, and at 100 it's hitting not much more than a 150 gr from a .30-30, and at 125 it's already less, much less than the -10+" drop at 100 as well.

THAT'S why I don't recommend shots over 100....even if you call the drop well, that energy is not there anywhere near it was at the muzzle.


My buck I shot at 192, I had no exit, the slug either deflected off a rib when it entered or else in the tw0 seconds or so the slug took to GET there....(no kidding, BOOM...(pause, pause, pause) THUNK) the deer turned a little towards me, but the entry hole was perpendicular to the shot, but the slug was recovered in the hip joint, virtually intact, NO expansion, and weighed 2 grains less than an unfired slugger.

The buck traveled about 150 yds or so, and was dead when I got to it, but NO blood, all damage was internal, and if he had made it all the way across the cut beanfield into the thick woods he was heading for I might have lost him.

The ONLY reaction when the slug hit was a slight grunt and then he ran away, with his tail DOWN.

YES they can make them go down at close range quickly, but for every one that dropped in his tracks like they got hit with a train I have seen as many, nowhere near as big, solidly hit with multiple slugs in the breadbasket, run off and cover a LOT of ground before recovery. The only REDEEMING value is at 100 or less you USUALLY get a BIG exit hole, and a blood trail that even a novice can track.

My first buck I ever got, a 1 and 1/2 year old spindly 5 point, I hit with one shot through the leg and destroyed the heart at about 20 feet, blood EVERYWHERE but he ran off with his leg spinning in the air, and made it about 75 yds over the ridge....when I got there he was dead and bled out, BUT he covered ground without "knockdown."

SO while slugs CAN be very impressive in performance, they can also be pretty UNIMPRESSIVE as well at times, so you STILL have to practice and make GOOD shot placement just like with any other rifle or pistol.
 
#10 ·
I shoot Win PDX1 segmented slugs, but only at paper in order to train for the time I may need to use it against a fellow man.
 
#11 ·
Josh, do you hunt? If so, and the range is short, give a shotgun a chance!
 
#12 ·
But then again, shooting 1 oz slugs at virtually any range, while I have to figure the DROP, I have never had to figure the WIND, no matter HOW hard it was blowing, LOL.

Not like a 50 gr .224 Vmax, anyway;):D:D


But then I remember at least TWO spectacular misses caused by deflections off brush or branches, so I don't necessarily buy the "brush bucking" capability of slugs or any other round for that matter, either, they will deflect as much ( maybe MORE?) than any other bullet that touches anything in the path....
 
#13 ·
I shoot Win PDX1 segmented slugs, but only at paper in order to train for the time I may need to use it against a fellow man.
HIGH dollar slugs, huh Josh?;)

I have no experience with them or any of the high dollar sabot "slugs" since 5" groups from a bench at 100 from my '97 Riot with the cheapest 2 3/4" 1 oz sluggers is more than I ever expected to shoot with slugs from ANY shotgun, but I do not think(?) I would see ANY benefit shooting them from a true smoothbore tube...

MAYBE rifled slug barrels, but I still wonder if they might not be an answer to a question nobody asked? (My '97 outshoots one of my Buddy's Remington 1100 WITH his rifled Hastings barrel, no matter WHAT slug he uses....)

I mean, are you better off spending $12-14/5 or more and MAYBE testing them enough to be comfortable, or spending $3-4/5 for standard Foster type slugs and shooting at least twice, maybe three times or more as much through your shotgun for the same price or even LESS and saving a few for the season, and be SURE what they will do for you, or more importantly, what YOU can do with THEM....

....I vote for shooting MORE at the range and shooting LESS during the season on your kills...and saving money in the process....

Which opinion I have held even BEFORE all these new high dollar Sabot or whatever slugs hit the market...

When I was a kid, and to this DAY, MANY shotguns shooters that supposedly knew anything about deer hunting with slugs advocated spending twice as much for BRENNEKE slugs...

If your tube shoots Brennekes well, God bless you....I will not argue with you.

BUT I have NEVER shot ANY shotgun since I started hunting that shot Brennekes APPRECIABLY better than Remington, Winchester, or Federal standard Foster Slugs to justify the extra expense.....
 
#14 ·
My smoothbore 12ga 870 prints one large, 5 shot
hole at 50yds approx 1-1 1/2in. At 75yrds it opens up
closer around 2 1/2-3 1/4in. In my book thats sub moa:D
My ol man has an 870 from 1993 that he got as a combo for $190 ( those
were the days ) with close to 20 deer under its belt. Right now its sporting a
Mossberg rifled barrel that loves the cheap federal sabots. I get them from
my local mejiers for $6.99 a box.
 
#15 ·
polishshooter, I agree with you all the way. All they had when I was a boy was Foster type slugs, (also still called pumpkin balls here in the south, even though they are not) so that's all I've ever bought, and shot. OK, I bought a couple of boxes of the Winchester PDX1's, I haven't shot them, but they were bought to go in my home defense gun, not for hunting. I used to own a '97 myself, and like a fool, I sold it when needing some money, and I don't even remember what I spent it own! I started out with a "Long Tom", single shot 32" full choke barrel. Slugs were only good out to about 40-50 yards, but 00 Buck was good out a little further. Killed a lot of game with old gun! Traded it for the '97.
 
#16 ·
Polish,

Your post got me thinking and I had plenty of time so i did some research. I hope you dont' mind:)

"Muzzle Velocity and energy of 1 oz slugs at somewhere around 2000 fps or so IS very impressive, but don't get TOO excited...."

The mV of a 12 gage 1 once slug is 1550 fps, nowhere near 2000.

"Energy and velocity drops QUICKLY, and at 100 it's hitting not much more than a 150 gr from a .30-30, and at 125 it's already less"

A 1 once slug has 926 footpounds of energy at 100 yards, and a 30-30 has 1357 footpounds at 100 yards. At the muzle, the 30-30 has 2360 and the 12 gage has 1903. A 12 gage slug never has more energy, either at the muzle or at 100 yards.

"much less than the -10+" drop at 100 as well"

A 1 once slug sighted in at 50 yards hits 4.8" low at 100.

BTW, you are probably so used to your' shotgun you did not think about it, but for fun I ran the shot you made on that grate buck and the chart show the slug droped 31 inches at 190 yards. You made a hell of a good shot! And I apreciate you always telling people not to try it and that you did it cause of you'r experiance and skill and even then you we're stretching it.
 
#18 ·
HIGH dollar slugs, huh Josh?;)

I have no experience with them or any of the high dollar sabot "slugs" since 5" groups from a bench at 100 from my '97 Riot with the cheapest 2 3/4" 1 oz sluggers is more than I ever expected to shoot with slugs from ANY shotgun, but I do not think(?) I would see ANY benefit shooting them from a true smoothbore tube...

MAYBE rifled slug barrels, but I still wonder if they might not be an answer to a question nobody asked? (My '97 outshoots one of my Buddy's Remington 1100 WITH his rifled Hastings barrel, no matter WHAT slug he uses....)

I mean, are you better off spending $12-14/5 or more and MAYBE testing them enough to be comfortable, or spending $3-4/5 for standard Foster type slugs and shooting at least twice, maybe three times or more as much through your shotgun for the same price or even LESS and saving a few for the season, and be SURE what they will do for you, or more importantly, what YOU can do with THEM....

....I vote for shooting MORE at the range and shooting LESS during the season on your kills...and saving money in the process....

Which opinion I have held even BEFORE all these new high dollar Sabot or whatever slugs hit the market...

When I was a kid, and to this DAY, MANY shotguns shooters that supposedly knew anything about deer hunting with slugs advocated spending twice as much for BRENNEKE slugs...

If your tube shoots Brennekes well, God bless you....I will not argue with you.

BUT I have NEVER shot ANY shotgun since I started hunting that shot Brennekes APPRECIABLY better than Remington, Winchester, or Federal standard Foster Slugs to justify the extra expense.....
They are about a buck50 a shot. My 870 is equipped like a patrol shotgun. Ghost ring nite sites, LED flashlight, side saddle, mag tube extension, and MagPul SGA stock set. It is Minute of badguy at 50 yds with the PDX1 defenders. From the bench they'll hit exactly POA in about a 2" group. Fantastic for a 18.5" smoothbore with sloppy rifle sights.

Truth be told tho I much prefer buckshot. The flashlight I have mounted on it VIA a mount I devised myself has a beam focus and a strobe function. And as a matter of pure coincidence the focused beam centers the Ghost ring sight picture. meaning what my light touches gets stitched.. And that was a matter of pure luck, as I hadn't intended it when I mounted it. Im not a fan of laser sights, but a bright ass strobing beam of light that not only blinds and confuses the badguy, but also serves as a means of positive target ID as well as an impact reference for me is fanfreakintastic.
 
#19 ·
Slugs get maligned about their total performance. But at close range, 100 yards and under they are very deadly and sometimes extremely accurate. A twelve gauge slug comes out of a hole almost 3/4" in diamater, a sixteen gauge close to 11/16", and a twenty gauge pushing 5/8". Holes this size leak a lot of body fluids/blood real fast, and cause a rapid loss of blood pressure, which makes for a quick kill. Slugs can also be very accurate from the right gun. There was, and may still be an organization called the Diana Society, they were/are a shooting organization that practices bench rest shooting/competition with slug guns. The groups from some of these guns rival many bench rest rifles.
 
#20 ·
Slugs get maligned about their total performance. But at close range, 100 yards and under they are very deadly and sometimes extremely accurate. A twelve gauge slug comes out of a hole almost 3/4" in diamater, a sixteen gauge close to 11/16", and a twenty gauge pushing 5/8". Holes this size leak a lot of body fluids/blood real fast, and cause a rapid loss of blood pressure, which makes for a quick kill. Slugs can also be very accurate from the right gun. There was, and may still be an organization called the Diana Society, they were/are a shooting organization that practices bench rest shooting/competition with slug guns. The groups from some of these guns rival many bench rest rifles.
The Savage 220 Slug Gun is capable of Sub-MOA groups @ 100 yds
 
#21 ·
Being from Iowa I have to use a slug gun and I love my 870 12 ga with 2 and 3/4 inch Winchester rifled slugs launched from a smooth bore slug barrel. Cheap to shoot and that gun loves them. IT hates the remingtons, The gun likes federals as well and they are probably a bit more accurate than the Winchesters but for some reason the gun will lock up after I shoot them. I have never figured it out. It might shoot two or three in a row just fine and then boom locks up. You have to take the barrel off to get the casing out. Not fun to do on a deer drive. I have had a very qualified gun smith investigate it to and he found nothing wrong as well. So I just avoid federals. One of the guys who drives deer with us has the exact same gun and shoots federals just fine. I boil it down to one of life's little mysteries.
 
#22 · (Edited)
Being from Iowa I have to use a slug gun and I love my 870 12 ga with 2 and 3/4 inch Winchester rifled slugs launched from a smooth bore slug barrel. Cheap to shoot and that gun loves them. IT hates the remingtons, The gun likes federals as well and they are probably a bit more accurate than the Winchesters but for some reason the gun will lock up after I shoot them. I have never figured it out. It might shoot two or three in a row just fine and then boom locks up. You have to take the barrel off to get the casing out. Not fun to do on a deer drive. I have had a very qualified gun smith investigate it to and he found nothing wrong as well. So I just avoid federals. One of the guys who drives deer with us has the exact same gun and shoots federals just fine. I boil it down to one of life's little mysteries.
Headspace... Yours is a tad looser than your buddy with the same gun and the federals are probably a bit higher pressure than the Winchesters. Which is causing the casehead to swell and lock up the action. What you are doing by taking the barrel of is manually loosening the swelled case by pulling the barrel free of the bolt, which has the case caught by the extractor and thereby frees the stuck case.

You can confirm this by taking a micrometer and measuring the amount of expansion your cases have versus the amount of expansion your buddys cases have. Both using the same ammo of course..

If youd like it fixed see if your more than qualified gunsmith will check the bolt for lug setback and if that checks out have him weld the lock up recess in the hood of the barrel and re cut it for minimal headspace at lockup.

Or if youd rather bypass him altogether and fix it yourself. Just purchase a new barrel and bolt assembly from midwayUSA or Brownells.
 
#23 ·
Thanks for the insight JLA, no offense but he thought it was a head space problem and turns out that wasn't it. I don't think commenting on my "more than qualified gunsmith" was necessary. He is highly qualified and has been fixing and building guns for a living longer than I have been alive. He is retired now but still will look at one for certain people. He certainly does not deserve yours or anyone else's scorn.
 
#24 ·
No scorn intended, and I didn't put more than qualified gunsmith in quotations either. I was simply using your own words.

It was simply free advice, take it or leave it. And have faith. It is a headspace issue. There is nothing else that will jam a pump gun up like that with particular ammunition.
 
#25 ·
Polish,

Your post got me thinking and I had plenty of time so i did some research. I hope you dont' mind:)

"Muzzle Velocity and energy of 1 oz slugs at somewhere around 2000 fps or so IS very impressive, but don't get TOO excited...."

The mV of a 12 gage 1 once slug is 1550 fps, nowhere near 2000.

"Energy and velocity drops QUICKLY, and at 100 it's hitting not much more than a 150 gr from a .30-30, and at 125 it's already less"

A 1 once slug has 926 footpounds of energy at 100 yards, and a 30-30 has 1357 footpounds at 100 yards. At the muzle, the 30-30 has 2360 and the 12 gage has 1903. A 12 gage slug never has more energy, either at the muzle or at 100 yards.

"much less than the -10+" drop at 100 as well"

A 1 once slug sighted in at 50 yards hits 4.8" low at 100.

BTW, you are probably so used to your' shotgun you did not think about it, but for fun I ran the shot you made on that grate buck and the chart show the slug droped 31 inches at 190 yards. You made a hell of a good shot! And I apreciate you always telling people not to try it and that you did it cause of you'r experiance and skill and even then you we're stretching it.
KY no problem!;)

I pulled te 2000 out of my hat because I thought somebody had done so earlier when comparing it to a .30-06.

I know they are somewhere between 15 and 1600 at the muzzle, so you are right on.

But I also remember doing the numbers (a LONG time ago:p) when I read some writer who claimed the 12 guage slug at 125 has about the same energy as the .30-30 at 200....and since EVERYBODY considered 200 as about the maximum practical range for the thutty-thutty, he said we should all consider 100-125 as the maximum practical range for a 12 ga slug....90-100 for a 16, and 75-90 for a 20. His numbers were spot on, and all predicated on a 150 gr .30-30 at 200 yds....

My long buck was a perfect set up. I KNEW he was beyond 150, since he came out PASTt the end of the draw I had lasered at 150 years before....he stopped when I blew the grunt call, and the LAST time I blew it hard he stomped, standing broadside to me, looking in....I was about 12 feet up in my tree, but the ground rose towards him so he was ultimately about at my height...I was leaning against my front railing of my stand which supported my whole body with my front arm on the side rail with the foreend resting on it, and I first sighted on his back line, then held up "about" (it seemed like slow motion but it was really so fast so only estimates!) I remember it as about 12 inches above his back line and SQUEEZED....the slug hit just a little high from where I usually like my lung shots to hit, but still caught both lungs and tore him up internally...maybe a couple inches behind the shoulder blade, and maybe an inch or two higher than the middle of the blade.....

When I heard the loud "thunk" I KNEW I had hit him, but he just like "shuddered" then trotted off, with his tail down not up like I was taught they do most of the time when hit....

But NO blood where I shot him, but the ground was soft in the cut bean field and where he was standing his BIG tracks were unmistakeable....I just followed his tracks up over a little rise and when I got to the top saw him lying about 100 yds ahead...

The next day is when I took out a little flag and put it where his tracks were when I shot him, and lasered it with my golf rangefinder from my stand....which is where I read the 192....and almost choked...:eek:

If I had had the rangefinder with me that day and lasered him and knew it was that far I would NOT have shot....I had guessed he was somewhere around 160-170, which was STILL too far in my book....but I had missed him earlier in the season, and he WAS standing there broadside with that BIG tall rack looking so FINE....I figured WTH...:cool:
 
#26 ·
Ands KY, MAYBE the drop is 4.8 at 100, but it's trajectory is a BIG rainbow! At 125 it's pushing 10-12", at 150 probably 18" EASILY....figuring my hold over his back at about 12", the slug hit another 10" or so BELOW the back line, so I guess my drop was somewhere about 20-24"....
 
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