[Distinct_Editz]

I really plan on receiving a maximum of (0) replies to this thread, But my questions are as follows:

1)What gun should I get and why?
- Ferret 50
- Serbu BFG-50
- Other good 50DTC Rifles reccomendations?
2)What is better?
- .50DTC EDM
- .50DTC EUROP

3)Good reloading press for 1 1/2"-12 threaded dies?

And finally, are .50DTC and .510DTC the same exact thing just called different? From the little information I'm gathering on the internet, they are but I don't know for sure yet.

Was just sitting down tonight and decided, Know what f*ck CA I want a 50 cal. So here I am

 

[howlnmad]

Hang on. LD has loaded for that caliber (the Ca. BMG). Maybe he'll pop in and answer some of your questions.

 

[Distinct_Editz]

I contacted Serbu and they answered my last question for me. .50DTC and .510DTC are the same thing. Also I hear the two places to get dies for these special rounds are CH4D and Lee Precision. I already know the threads for CH4D are the standard 1 1/2"-12 but are Lee dies 1 1/2"-12 threaded or are they 1 1/4"-12 thread to go on their own press?

 

[LDBennett]

Here is my 50DTC story:
My son-in-law talked me into a partnership on a CA 50BMG, the 50DTC, gun. I of course was responsible for the reloading as no ammo was available or affordable. We had to go economy (but NOTHING 50 Cal is cheap!!!). At the time you could buy an inexpensive bolt action upper for a AR15 lower. I had a spare early CA AR upper version with only an internal magazine which I modified (removed internal magazine) to make it dedicated to the 50DTC bolt upper single shot). The upper was a BOHICA which is now out of business because of a fool that abused it and had a cartridge go off without the bolt fully closed and serious hurt himself and then sued BOHICA. The upper was well made but suffered a few design issues that made it less than stellar. We could not afford anything but this econo upper so we never looked at anything else. I eventually backed out of the partnership and gave it all to the son-in-law who does not reload.

At the time there were only two choices of reloading dies: LEE and CH4D. The LEE dies where special order and only done in large orders and the CH4D dies had a short wait but only fit the giant RCBS press because of the screw thread on the outside of the dies. So I had to buy the really big RCBS single stage press. Be aware that the dies dictate the external sizing of the caliber so you have to match the dies to the gun. You have to do your own research to match it all up and find them in the market place if at all. The last I heard there was no brass and you had to make it from 50BMG brass which I did. It took tooling I made and my lathe to get the case length right.

I loaded up all the brass to minimal loads for fire forming and in the end that was the load level I used. Fire forming was successful. The exception was the expensive scope did not survive the fire forming as it moved in the mounts, the turret hit the scope mount, and broke the reticule. It was fixed for free but I had to put four rings on the scope, and glue the scope to the rings. No problems after that with the scope, a special 50BMG scope from MIllet.

First mistake: Buying South America CBC brass which had extra thin walls effecting the neck tension seriously. Had to dump it and buy MIL SURP brass.

Second mistake: Seating primers like you would any other caliber (a few thousandth below flush). Had failures to fire until I found that the correct seating depth was 0.020 inches below flush.

Next mistake: Allow firing of slightly crushed primer. I do this on occasion on regular cartridges with no problem but this time on this huge cartridge the gas escaped around the slightly crumpled primer edge and gas eroded the bolt face slightly. Not really a problem just a learning experience.

In the end I hated the 50 BMG/DTC experience. The noise was significant. The recoil punishing (and recoil normally does not bother me). The concussion directed to the side by the muzzle brake forced observers well away from the firing line. We took several trips to a remote part of the desert and that was enough for me. I gave my part to the son-in-law, walking away from the deal. He has shot up the remaining ammo I reloaded and I think the gun has become a safe queen.

As to what design the cartridge is, I think both LEE and CH4D have come to a common design and you only have to make sure the gun manufacturer chambers the gun for their common design.

Load data:
690 gain bullets (used 646 grain bullet for fire forming cases)

Hodgdon H50 220 grains (Max is supposed to be 248 grains with 646 grain bullet but I never varied the load for either the test 646 or the final 690 grain bullet)

Primers set 0.020 inches below flush

Trim length 3.800 inches or less

MIL SURP brass trimmed and fire formed (CBC brass too thin and gives NO neck tension to bullet)

Overall cartridge length for this gun was 5.287 inches (bullet 0.020 inches off rifling but this is for this gun and not yours)

I learned from this experience not to be convinced by others what I want to shoot. Anything 50BMG related is extremely expensive even when you try to control costs. This was a lot of work to get to 50DTC cases and I most certainly would NOT do it again. But everyone gets to choose.

LDBennett

 

[tuckerd1]

WOW @LDBennett !

 

[LDBennett]

The CH4D dies are a different much larger thread and will only fit the RCBS Ammo Master 2. The LEE dies I believe will fit regular press or at least a LEE press (??).

The name was originally 510 DTC but as CA has a ban on 50 BMG there was a worry that the diameter might be perceived to be larger than 0.500 inches and that might get that cartridge banned too. So 50DTC was chosen as the name. It is similar to other cartridges based on the 50 BMG but different enough to be OK in California the last time I checked.

LDBennett

 

[Distinct_Editz]

@LDBennett
Wow that is some story! I hope my experience with the .50DTC is better haha. I contacted Dave at CH4D and he told me the dies are threaded 1 1/2"-12 so technically they should fit every press threaded like that right?
I'm thinking of getting...

Gun: https://serbu.com/collections/firearms/products/bfg-51 (EDM Chamber)

Brass: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/673566/once-fired-brass-50-bmg-grade-2 (Then turning it into .50DTC)

Bullets: LeHigh Defense 750gr Solid Match Bullets

Primers: CCI #35

Powder: US 869

Dies: CH4D (.50DTC EDM)

Press: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/303846/hornady-lock-n-load-50-bmg-single-stage-press

Any thoughts? I just can't resist getting a 50. ALSO, How did you measure primer seating depth??

 

[LDBennett]

I know nothing about any of these 50BMG guns except for the now discontinued BOHICA which was a less than stellar design.

The 50BMG MIL SURP brass is a better starting point than some unkown South American brand I first picked. Some say CBC brass in other calibers is good brass but their 50BMG brass was so thin that the bullets could be spun around by hand after seating and crimping...NOT GOOD.

The Hornady press will do the job but a very similar RCBS Ammo Master 2 is significantly less and worked excellent for me. But the listed prices have to be modified by adding in the priming accessories (included or not???) and any other accessories. now if you want to go first class you can go Dillon Progressive for $1100 and add there dies set for over $900. The CH4D dies are about half that and the LEE dies much less than that.

To measure the primer seating depth I used simple calipers. The skinny part that protrudes out the end as you open them up is for depth measurements. I prefer good (read expensive) calipers of the digital type because reading them is less ambiguous. About $100+ dollars at a machinist supply house will get you better ones than sold by reloading outfits. There is a difference. Go to the You Tube Chanel AvE and look for his tests and teardown to see what I am saying about "better" being better.

Some of you have a burning desire to shoot 50BMG. I never understood that. I would think a trip to one of the shooting fairs where you can buy a few cartridges to fire behind their gun to get the thrill. But hey, we all get to choose.

LDBennett

 

[Distinct_Editz]

now if you want to go first class you can go Dillon Progressive for $1100 and add there dies set for over $900.
LDBennett

Ha! That's a good joke. Reloading 50 BMG on a Dillon. Yeah right. Thank you for your input though, I think I'm going with the Ammo Master 2. Saves me $100.

 

[LDBennett]

In comparing the Hornady to the RCBS presses be sure to factor in what accessories, if any, are included with each.

What no $2000 Dillon?

LDBennett

 

[Distinct_Editz]

@LDBennett
Well, I've done all my research. Now for the scopes. Just keeps getting more expensive *deep sigh* I know this mammoth of a gun eats scopes. I think I'm gonna settle with all my pocket can afford right now, $300 Vortex 6-24x50 scope, Due to the good magnification and if SHTF I have a no questions asked warranty. I just want some good rings to hold this baby. Any suggestions?

 

[LDBennett]

Take a look at the Millet scope for 50 BMG:

http://www.millettsights.com/scopes/lrs/

It is high magnification 6 to 25 for Long Range, 35mm tube, Huge objective, about $450. Order an extra set of rings (note they are 35mm which is unique). The Vortex you suggest is cheaper.

What ever you buy get two sets of rings for it. Use the lightest LocTite (green?) to glue the rings to the scope. Make sure the rings are tight to the gun and scope, and the rings are not anywhere near the scope turrets. I turned a piece of round aluminum to the exact diameter of the scope tube and used it and grinding paste to make the inside of the rings perfectly round for full contact.

Our 50DTC was about 4X more expensive than I ever thought it would be. The reloading stuff (press and dies) were almost as much as the gun (actually the complete upper). The scope was expensive too. Even though there were two of us contributing, it was expensive for both of us. But once into it it is hard to back out. I would NEVER do it again. The son-in-law was the one that wanted it and I was just humoring him at a steep cost!

LDBennett

 

[Distinct_Editz]

@LDBennett
Will the loctite get stuck on the scope? Also, I priced everything and SO FAR for the reloading equiptment(dies, press, trimmer, primer seater, shellholder, Etc.) the scope, rings, gun w/ bipod and 120rounds it has came out to $4,300 grand total. What would you say you spent on this whole project?

 

[LDBennett]

Yes it will stick to the scope tube. But it could be so hard that it just cracks and flakes off much like any other LocTite when you peel off the rings. The scope moving in the rings is a REAL problem that you must solve however you please. What I did was adequate. I never took the scope off so I don't really know how hard it stuck to the rings. The scope never moved again.

It was several years back and I don't really know what we had invested. We started with the gun and the other cost just kind of came in. Once committed you can't really go back. So we just plowed ahead, financially. It was two of us so that helped but....

I would never spend $4300 on this kind of project. This is not a gun you will shoot often, I suspect. A lot of ranges ban 50BMG (50DTC) because they have the potential of starting grass fires. Our local range had one of those fires (Not by me...we only shot the gun in the remote open desert). The reward of having one of these guns does not come close to matching the expense, at least for me. I could have 8 handguns, or 4 rifles for this kind of investment. I was kind of pressured into it originally without really knowing how expensive it would all be. But hey, its your money and your passion. Do as you please.

As an aside and part of our story, we even had trouble buying the bolt upper. We got all the reloading stuff and scope (expensive) and when we went to buy the 50DTC bolt upper, BOHICA was refusing to make anymore 50DTC guns after the open bolt accident (per their lawyer demand). So we were half in and could not get the upper. I pleaded with the owner and he finally agreed to sell me the 50DTC upper if I signed a waiver releasing him of all responsibility. The lesson is get ALL the ducks in a line first.

To say this whole 50DTC thing was traumatic to me is an understatement. The son-in-law and I, during all of this, had a falling out (over inheritance of all things) that has not been mended to this day. Too bad as we were shooting buddies. I'm still close to my step daughter and her two girls but don't see them much anymore. But not to fret as my son and I and his two kids are extremely close. Such is life!

LDBennett